***Official*** Australia in Sri Lanka

[Ruckus]

If you include Johnson's batting though, it is pretty debatable who is the more valuable player. I definately think Bollinger is a better bowler than Johnson, but I don't think he is that much better. His current record flatters him somewhat because he has faced some pretty average batting line-ups. While Dougie should definately be in the team in place of someone like Siddle imo, I honestly don't think him replacing Johnson would make much of a difference to the teams success.

 

[Furball]

I'm not having adub's massive defence of Bollinger at Adelaide either; he bowled some absolute rubbish to Trott at the start of his innings before his fitness became an issue.

 

[Uppercut]

I'm not having adub's massive defence of Bollinger at Adelaide either; he bowled some absolute rubbish to Trott at the start of his innings before his fitness became an issue.

Had him put down too tbf.

 

[MW1304]

Wouldn't so quickly hitch my cart to Harris; even if fit, outside of Australia, reckon he'd struggle to consistently take Test wickets and I say that as a bloke with a Crushinator-like love for the man and everything he stands for/does/says.

Honestly, I think OZ are just in a bit of a rut for pace bowling; the guys who are playing Tests and experienced aren't brilliant but the ones who have something about them are still young/raw. Still got a couple of years of **** results to endure before that changes/GChapp is booted.

Re: Siddle, I reckon like Caddick, he needs to figure out what sort of pace bowler he wants to be and bowl accordingly. He's not quick enough to be express all the time but too quick to get big movement in the air so he's caught either bowling too short or too full going for pace. He takes wickets in bunches and is a nasty bowler to face early so I reckon he might want to consider just hitting the channel at slightly reduced pace for the majority of his bowling but going hard only at guys new to the crease. He gets big hoop into the right-hander and can nip it away quite nicely so backing off his pace a little might help both of those things.

Siddle has looked most dangerous pitching the ball up and getting it to nip around a bit, as well as being aggressive (not short ball aggressive, pace and intent aggressive). He has the same problems as Broad, in a way, even though they don't appear similar bowlers, and he could learn a thing or two from what Broad's been doing to the Indians, because if he does the same he could be a pretty decent bowler. Even though he didn't bowl brilliantly, he was your best bowler in the Ashes and should be stuck with IMO.

 

[adub]

If you include Johnson's batting though, it is pretty debatable who is the more valuable player. I definately think Bollinger is a better bowler than Johnson, but I don't think he is that much better. His current record flatters him somewhat because he has faced some pretty average batting line-ups. While Dougie should definately be in the team in place of someone like Siddle imo, I honestly don't think him replacing Johnson would make much of a difference to the teams success.

Look I agree that Johnson has some real ability with the bat (although that can be as hit and miss as his bowling), and I haven't said that he necessarily has to make way. What I am saying is that he is not this great wicket taking must be in the side at any cost magician that he is made out to be. The prick leaks runs and sprays it everywhere more often than not. You say Doug isn't that much better, but clearly he is better on the stats. Like I said these are comparisons of the games they both played in, so if Doug's record is flattered by bowling at some pretty average attacks then Johnson's is just as much. (as shown by the numbers being quite a bit better than his overall career numbers) We just aren't in the position at No.5 on the rankings to be accepting 2nd best even if it isn't that much behind the best. Do you think if Johnson had played at Adelaide he would have gone any better than Doug, especially after how he blew up in Brisbane?

So yes I agree that Doug should be in in place of Siddle (who he has also smoked head to head 20@32 s/r 63.8 v 17@36.23 s/r 76.2) and play as one of the opening bowlers along with Harris.

Then you look at Johnson and he has to justify his spot, better than Siddle, yeah probably, better than Copeland, or Pattinson, or Butterworth, or Faulkner, or some other young guy who is coming through? Well we don't know for sure yet, but all of them have better first class records than Johnson and I'd sure like to see some of them get the chance to prove what they do at Shield level they can do at Test level. Butterworth and Faulkner in particular have the batting to match or better Johnson as well.

So maybe a straight swap Bollinger for Johnson wouldn't make us that much better, but swap out Siddle and Johnson who both seem to be selectors pets, for Bolly and say Butterworth, well then I am very confident we would be considerably better off in fairly short order. Johnson has had more wind blown up his backside than one of those inflatable arm waving tube men, and has about as much control over his action half the time. He just isn't that good that his position in the side should be as unquestioned as it is. He's a myth.

 

[SamSawnoff]

Hilfenhaus has paid for not being able to take wickets - so check on that

Spinner - well we all know that problem remains ongoing with no resolution in sight.

Johnson - like Siddle is a change bowler at best. Like the girl with the curl. When he's good he is very very good, but when he is bad he is horrid. Horrid seems to come more often than good and I'd be glad to see the end of him, but it seems our selectors only notice his good points and not his flaws. If it was a choice between him and Siddle for the third bowling spot I'd probably take him, but only because he can offer some handy runs with the bat and we have Watson as back up if he does have a complete melt down. I think we should be looking beyond both of them though frankly. I just can't see Australia as No.1 or 2 in the world with either of these two in the attack.

Harris - If only he didn't break so much he could lead us back up the rankings.

.

Yep, agreed with that one, though I have more faith long term in Peter Siddle as I don't think he's a headcase in the same way that Johnson is. I'm hoping that Johnson is almost done. His record over the past year is pretty average, no-one is scared of him and why should they be?

 

[Furball]

Had him put down too tbf.

True, but adub has completely ignored the diet of leg stump half volleys that Trott got served by Bollinger after that drop.

 

[adub]

Had him put down too tbf.

Exactly. Like I said it was easily Doug's worst test and he went in underdone thanks in no small part to the selectors. Yet even then he outbowled two of the 4 main bowlers in Siddle and Doherty.

Now Doherty quite rightly got the boot. It wasn't fair to pick him in the first place, he just never was and never will be up to it. But why does Siddle not get questioned for his uselessness? And why does Johnson who the week before bowled at least as much rubbish as Bollinger did in Adelaide suddenly get brought back to he can enjoy the best fast bowling conditions in the world? Yeah he bowled great in that England first innings, best he ever has I reckon, but he was back to spraying em around in the second dig and by the time we get to Melbourne he was 9/10s useless again.

Bollinger has one bad innings on the flattest deck in Australia in stinking heat against a rampant attack and his papers are stamped, but Siddle and Johnson can bowl 5 innings of tripe and then pull a six-fer out of their butts on the sixth and they're locks? It's crap. Their rubbish costs us more games than their good days win. We're sitting in 5th for a lot of reasons Johnson and Siddle are two of them.

 

[Spark]

He wasn't spraying them second dig... picked up a few good wickets on the 3rd evening and by the time the 4th morning came around Harris was too busy up the other end anyway.

He didn't especially fall apart after that Test. Certainly nowhere near the degree Hilfenhaus did, for example.

Look, I'd love to sit here and say that we've got a better bowler than the erratic, technically flawed and flaky Johnson. But I honestly look at our stocks and I can't say we do. We have the potential for better but that's not good enough at the moment. The best of a average bunch is still the best of an average bunch.

 

[Spikey]

well ****. when i decide to make a non-greg chappell post it's usually about how siddle and mj can't be in the same attack because they'll take a 6 wicket haul, do nothing for the next 2-3 tests and then take another 6er and so it's impossible to expect a good bowling attack. i'm now utterly useless. i feel like Hilf.

ps fine with MJ in the team as long as Siddle's not there. He takes wickets. S/R of 53 is up there. But he's not an automatic choice and he's not the leader. He needs a good attack around him. Not Siddle/Hilf/Beer.

 

[adub]

True, but adub has completely ignored the diet of leg stump half volleys that Trott got served by Bollinger after that drop.

You can't score if you're back in the pavillion.

Compare Doug's worst match (Adelaide) with Johnson in Brisbane and it's no contest. At least in Adelaide Dougie bowled some good overs, took a wicket and should have had 2 cheap. Johnson in Brisbane bowled like he using the wrong arm. If Doug's papers deserved to be stamped after Adelaide, Johnson's should have been stamped after Brisbane. If both of them were treated the same I wouldn't have any complaint, but it's the inconsistency that gets my goat, and its the inconsistency from the selectors that is a massive part of why we're currently ****. And if you don't think the players don't notice the inconsistency and it doesn't have an effect on them and team morale you weren't listening when Katich gave them both barrells.

 

[Howe_zat]

Schadenfreugasm.

 

[Furball]

You can't score if you're back in the pavillion.

Compare Doug's worst match (Adelaide) with Johnson in Brisbane and it's no contest. At least in Adelaide Dougie bowled some good overs, took a wicket and should have had 2 cheap. Johnson in Brisbane bowled like he using the wrong arm. If Doug's papers deserved to be stamped after Adelaide, Johnson's should have been stamped after Brisbane. If both of them were treated the same I wouldn't have any complaint, but it's the inconsistency that gets my goat, and its the inconsistency from the selectors that is a massive part of why we're currently ****. And if you don't think the players don't notice the inconsistency and it doesn't have an effect on them and team morale you weren't listening when Katich gave them both barrells.

The one massive difference between the two is that Johnson didn't bowl like crap because he'd run out of puff. As much as CA have to take some of the blame for Bollinger's condition leading into Adelaide, rocking up unfit is a pretty unforgiveable sin IMO.

 

[NUFAN]

The one massive difference between the two is that Johnson didn't bowl like crap because he'd run out of puff. As much as CA have to take some of the blame for Bollinger's condition leading into Adelaide, rocking up unfit is a pretty unforgiveable sin IMO.

It's not fair on bowlers. If he was a batsman and made 2 golden ducks as he rocked up unfit you wouldn't even notice really.

I don't particularly like either Bollinger or Johnson, but I know Johnson frustrates the hell out of me so much.

If we picked the best available spinner in O'Keefe or when Hauritz returns, we don't need Johnson's batting.

 

[MW1304]

It's not fair on bowlers. If he was a batsman and made 2 golden ducks as he rocked up unfit you wouldn't even notice really.

I don't particularly like either Bollinger or Johnson, but I know Johnson frustrates the hell out of me so much.

If we picked the best available spinner in O'Keefe or when Hauritz returns, we don't need Johnson's batting.

It's not unfair, bowler's rely on fitness much more than batsmen do. Its just a byproduct of how much toil you put on your body by bowling, and however important fitness is when you're batting, its essential when you're bowling. Just look at Zaheer - rocks up unfit and gets immediatedly injured - its just how it goes for a bowler. Someone like Ranatunga or Inzy shows up unfit every day yet can still crack a double hundred with their level of fitness.

 

[NUFAN]

It's not unfair, bowler's rely on fitness much more than batsmen do. Its just a byproduct of how much toil you put on your body by bowling, and however important fitness is when you're batting, its essential when you're bowling. Just look at Zaheer - rocks up unfit and gets immediatedly injured - its just how it goes for a bowler. Someone like Ranatunga or Inzy shows up unfit every day yet can still crack a double hundred with their level of fitness.

It is unfair. It's one innings ffs. A bowler with his record should be forgiven for performing poorly once.

Incredibly harshly dealt with.

If it's true that Bollinger is ranked 25th on the contract list behind Patrick Cummins and Xavier Doherty.

 

[Furball]

It is unfair. It's one innings ffs. A bowler with his record should be forgiven for performing poorly once.

Incredibly harshly dealt with.

If it's true that Bollinger is ranked 25th on the contract list behind Patrick Cummins and Xavier Doherty.

It's unfair but I don't think it looks terribly clever on Bollinger's part either.

 

[Spikey]

Obviously we don't know what's happened, but - imo - It's not particularly fair to kick Bollinger out of the squad and almost axe his contract blaming fitness considering there's - seemingly - no history of it bar Adl. He got through all of the summer before fine, pretty much carrying the attack given the typical form of Siddle and MJ, as well as the few previous Shield seasons fine. Perhaps when he started it was bad but since about 06-07 there's been no indicator of it, and after one match where fitness did become an issue he's been put in exile. And it's questionable he should have even played. He was kept out of the test match before because of it, did they expect it to be back to normal 7 days later? Hopefully the long awaited review will focus heavily on this because the handling of Bollinger from the Champions League to Adl was terrible.

 

[Spark]

Look whilst I do think Bollinger has to share a fair bit of the blame for the fitness thing - he didn't exactly look in top physical shape during the ODI series, for example - there's no way he should have been treated as poorly as he has.

 

[Spikey]

well that's another thing, you can't have an each way bet. He's either not fit enough or he is fit enough. You can't kick him out of the test team but drag him around the world playing OD's.