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***Official*** Australia in South Africa

Ruckus

International Captain
Copeland is fairly ordinary and will continue to be in Test Cricket as far as I'm concerned.

He's only a semi-suitable option when we continue to select potentially wayward bowlers like Johnson in our attack. I can't see him doing well in South Africa, in fact by the time we get to the first home Test of the summer on December 1 vs. New Zealand, Copeland will be back in the shield ranks.
The reality is that for some time we will have wayward bowlers making up the attack. Given that, who would be better to complement the rest of the attack than someone like Copeland? And why can't you see him doing well in SA? If there is anywhere he will perform well, it's there. I just hope he is given a chance. Because if Cummins debuts, and Copeland misses out, I can easily see things going hopelessly wrong. I think Cummins has great potential, but just because he can bowl fast doesn't mean he will instantly be a gun. Fortunately it looks like he has more weapons up his sleeve than just pace, but he is too raw atm and needs more time to prove himself in shield cricket. Debuting him in SA might pay off, but it also could backfire massively if both him and Johnson lose their radars. I see no good reason not to stick with the same pace attack as in Sri Lanka tbh. It is the best our attack has looked in a long time, and in pretty lousy bowling conditions.
 

Sylvester

State Captain
Copeland has to be given a go in SA, you don't take a punt on him in SL to ditch him in his more favoured conditions. If the selectors want to know if he can make it at the next level then they have to take a look at him on decks that suit his bowling along side the Aussie decks where he will play a lot of his Test matches.
 

morgieb

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Copes won't be more than serviceable at Test level, but given that we have Siddle and Midge in our attack, he should play.
 

uvelocity

International Coach
Copeland is fairly ordinary and will continue to be in Test Cricket as far as I'm concerned.

He's only a semi-suitable option when we continue to select potentially wayward bowlers like Johnson in our attack. I can't see him doing well in South Africa, in fact by the time we get to the first home Test of the summer on December 1 vs. New Zealand, Copeland will be back in the shield ranks.
There really needs to be some betting option for cash on this site. Bet you are so wrong.
 

Outswinger@Pace

International 12th Man
Copeland is fairly ordinary and will continue to be in Test Cricket as far as I'm concerned.

He's only a semi-suitable option when we continue to select potentially wayward bowlers like Johnson in our attack. I can't see him doing well in South Africa, in fact by the time we get to the first home Test of the summer on December 1 vs. New Zealand, Copeland will be back in the shield ranks.
Ladies and gents, I call for quoting rights if and when this statement backfires on NUFAN!
 

Briony

International Debutant
As a general rule I don't think you should pick players in the squad if you have no intention of playing them. Good luck to Cummins though.

I'd have picked Bollinger over Beer. If Lyon gets injured then they could revert to the four quicks strategy that worked well in SA last time, with Copeland in the typical spinners' holding role.
Better than the McGain option.8-)
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
There really needs to be some betting option for cash on this site. Bet you are so wrong.
I think NUFAN is right, but for different reasons.

Copeland's problem is that he bowls at about 75mph. Conventional wisdom says that a Test bowler needs to be 10mph faster to be any good, so Copeland is already fighting against some massive ingrained prejudice. Regardless of how many FC wickets he takes, regardless of how cheaply he takes them, people are always going ti say 'yes, but he won't get international batsmen out bowling at that speed.'

If Copeland goes to South Africa and fails, then people don't have to search for a reason why, they already knew that he was too slow for international level. But what will be an even bigger problem for Copeland is that if he succeeds, people won't trust that success because it goes against everything they know. When you 'know' that Copeland is too slow, if he succeeds then people will seek excuses for why he's done so well, because the excuse will make more sense than accepting the idea that someone who only bowls at 75mph can succeed at Test level. We're already seeing the excuses start with Mickey Arthur's comment that Copeland's been helped by bowler friendly Shield wickets. And Arthur isn't some journalist who doesn't have a clue about the game; he's an ex-South Africa coach who now coaches WA in the Shield, so we'll assume he knows what he's talking about. This is the sort of prejudice from within cricket that he'll have to face.

If he succeeds, it'll be because the pitches are helping him/the batting lineup he's bowling to is crap or woefully out of form/his success is a total fluke and he'll regress back to the mean. Regardless of what he actually does between now and Boxing Day, it'll take a selector with balls to back him for the series against India, because trusting his success will be harder than trusting your instinct that a powerful batting lineup like India's will murder a guy who trundles the ball down to the other end at 75mph.
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
It'd be very interesting cricket watching Copeland bowl to Sehwag. Reckon he might get Virender a few times early, but maybe going at him with reckless abandon is the best way to deal with him. Refer to South Africa and Andrew McDonald, when they had a platform set and could just go at him.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
It'd be very interesting cricket watching Copeland bowl to Sehwag. Reckon he might get Virender a few times early, but maybe going at him with reckless abandon is the best way to deal with him. Refer to South Africa and Andrew McDonald, when they had a platform set and could just go at him.
Quite different types of bowler tho, aren't they? Similar lack of pace, but Ronnie is much more wicket-to-wicket and doesn't get the bounce Copeland does.

Bicknell caused SA all kinds of probs in 2002 bowling at a very similar pace to him.
 

benchmark00

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Macca definitely doesn't get the movement Copeland does.

Big fan of Ron's work though. Need more like him.
 

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
I don't think he's going to be a complete disaster with the ball and leak a stack of runs due to poor bowling, I just think he's going to struggle to get many South African wickets in the 2 Test Series, so when we get to the Gabba vs. NZ I think the selectors will finally be ready to unleash a young quick.
 

benchmark00

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I don't think he's going to be a complete disaster with the ball and leak a stack of runs due to poor bowling, I just think he's going to struggle to get many South African wickets in the 2 Test Series, so when we get to the Gabba vs. NZ I think the selectors will finally be ready to unleash a young quick.
You could be right, no doubt about it.

Hope you're not. But you very well could be.
 

Ruckus

International Captain
I don't think he's going to be a complete disaster with the ball and leak a stack of runs due to poor bowling, I just think he's going to struggle to get many South African wickets in the 2 Test Series, so when we get to the Gabba vs. NZ I think the selectors will finally be ready to unleash a young quick.
Given the the likely scenario of the SA wickets being bowler-friendly, and his formidable record on wickets like that, why do you think that? Of course, I'm assuming you mean he is going to struggle relative to the others...
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I think Copeland really needs to be given a good ten tests or so to see just how he will cope at the top level. We gave Hilfenhaus far longer despite him averaging incredibly poorly the whole time. We have to have faith in our domestic system. Copeland is the best performing bowler in the last season and despite him being from NSW and therefore being massively overrated and overhyped, deserves a go. I credit him with playing a big part in our win in Sri Lanka. He applied very good pressure the whole time and found the edge quite regularly, even though his wicket tally doesn't reflect that.

I can't believe we're talking about dropping him for a guy with only 3 shield matches under his belt. Warne had more before we picked him and he took a good two years to prove his worth.
 

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
Given the the likely scenario of the SA wickets being bowler-friendly, and his formidable record on wickets like that, why do you think that? Of course, I'm assuming you mean he is going to struggle relative to the others...
Do you think the pitches at Newlands and The Wanderers are going to be similar to the Shield pitches Copeland has bowled on?

His record is great in Shield Cricket, but then again someone like Adam Dale had a superb FC career but he was never seriously considered a long term solution.

If Watson has an unproductive series with the ball, the team just wont be potent enough having the 2 genuine quicks and the military medium Copeland unless he's doing more than just containing or taking a wicket or two in an innings.
 

The Battlers Prince

International Vice-Captain
The selectors going on gut feeling? Because that's worked for them? Beer plays a couple matches and gets piced, same as Lyon, it takes more to make a grade team for a local side than what it does to make the Test team, if they prove themselves as worth it or even atg's it doesn't say that taking pot chances on spinners is the answer. What a joke to be paying these 'selectors' for such insights
 

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