Dendarii
International Debutant
There was one test where we played all four of them.
3rd Test, South Africa tour of Australia at Adelaide, Jan 30-Feb 3 1998 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo
How ridiculous is that batting line-up? Symcox at 11!
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***Official*** Australia in South Africa 2018
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3rd Test, South Africa tour of Australia at Adelaide, Jan 30-Feb 3 1998 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo
How ridiculous is that batting line-up? Symcox at 11!
GRAB
First Class Debutant
Believe it or not Symcox was, at one point in his career, an opener...
https://www.crichq.com/matches/402866/2nd_innings
So is that a better all-rounder line-up than Goddard, Barlow, Lance, Procter? Discuss. (And P Pollock wasn't too shabby with the bat either...)
https://www.crichq.com/matches/402866/2nd_innings
So is that a better all-rounder line-up than Goddard, Barlow, Lance, Procter? Discuss. (And P Pollock wasn't too shabby with the bat either...)
6 allrounders vs 4 or 5. The 99 team is more impressive, but it actually makes for an unbalanced side- no top bowlers other than s pollock. 2 great bowlers in the 1970 side make it much stronger.
If you want to exclude P Pollock on the technically that he wasnt really an allrounder, the picture comes out very different.
stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I watched some tour game highlights. Starc looked quick and intent on bouncing every batsman out.
Smith looked positively annoyed with himself that they length ball he hit in the air behind square got caught. I guess he was trying to make a statement by smacking every ball regardless of its quality (tbf some of his shots were brutal and he had just hit a 6 with the same shot a few balls before).
Handscomb looks in poor nick.
Who was the fat spinner? When he came on it was like they'd gotten a park cricketer to have a trundle in the middle of a first class match.
Smith looked positively annoyed with himself that they length ball he hit in the air behind square got caught. I guess he was trying to make a statement by smacking every ball regardless of its quality (tbf some of his shots were brutal and he had just hit a 6 with the same shot a few balls before).
Handscomb looks in poor nick.
Who was the fat spinner? When he came on it was like they'd gotten a park cricketer to have a trundle in the middle of a first class match.
SeamUp
International Coach
Yeah that line-up with Symcox was ridiculous. One of our trademarks back then. Someone would always get the opposition down the order.
Suppose the team a few years later from isolation with Barlow, Rice (basically in place of Goddard), Procter supported by guys lower down like Kourie, Le Roux, Jefferies would have also been frustrating to try bowl out.
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Dendarii
International Debutant
So where have the all-rounders (or at least bowlers handy with the bat) gone? Given how many we've had over the years, it does seem a little odd that we've struggled to produce them in recent times.
SeamUp
International Coach
The question we've wanted answered for a little while isn't it.
Even taking out Faulkner, Goddard, Barlow, Lance, Procter, Rice, McMillan, S.Pollock, Klusener, Kallis. The spinners you felt could score 100s like Symcox, Boje or the very handy lower order players like P.Pollock, Le Roux, Jefferies, R.Snell, C.Matthews etc
Are we even producing Adrian Kuiper's, Roy Pienaar's, Eric Simons's, Hansie Cronje's, Justin Kemp's, Andrew Hall's & Johan van der Wath's ?
I suppose we got to remember we have Philander who is definitely deserving of all-rounder status even if people under rate his batting.
But thinking about the recent all-rounders we've tried. Are they better than the next level one's above (ie below our greats) ? Not in a million years : Phehlukwayo, Dwaine Pretorius, Morris, R.Kleinveldt, Parnell, McLaren, A.Morkel
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Could genuinely make a case* that Richardson or Rhodes should've batted 11 there, ffs.
*Not an especially strong one, but let the meme value of a potential specialist bat at #11 live on.
StephenZA
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Parnell and Duminy were the biggest hopes, I think though that much of the recent issues has been the success of players concentrating on one discipline rather than trying to be good at both. It is really not often that you get a player that has a single discipline gets them into the team outright, while the second is still of decent quality.The question we've wanted answered for a little while isn't it.
Even taking out Faulkner, Goddard, Barlow, Lance, Procter, Rice, McMillan, S.Pollock, Klusener, Kallis. The spinners you felt could score 100s like Symcox, Boje or the very handy lower order players like P.Pollock, Le Roux, Jefferies, R.Snell, C.Matthews etc
Are we even producing Adrian Kuiper's, Roy Pienaar's, Eric Simons's, Hansie Cronje's, Justin Kemp's, Andrew Hall's & Johan van der Wath's ?
I suppose we got to remember we have Philander who is definitely deserving of all-rounder status even if people under rate his batting.
But thinking about the recent all-rounders we've tried. Are they better than the next level one's above (ie below our greats) ? Not in a million years : Phehlukwayo, Dwaine Pretorius, Morris, R.Kleinveldt, Parnell, McLaren, A.Morkel
Would any of these easily make the SA test team at the moment, with their primary discipline? Cronje only one, maybe Kuiper at his peak. They would definitely make our LO's team though.
SeamUp
International Coach
Too much coaching or maybe the quality of coaching not what it used to be. Managing young players with dual skill-sets.
It was more for when they represented SA in either format you could rely on them more than our recent lot.
Oh yeah only Cronje, Kuiper and maybe Pienaar would make our test team now for the next level one's. ODI's a different story like you say.
Dendarii
International Debutant
To be fair, the bowling all-rounders wouldn't make the current team purely on their bowling because our bowling stocks are so good right now. It's not that they weren't necessarily good bowlers, just not as good as Steyn, Philander, Rabada, Morkel, or Ngidi.
StephenZA
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yeah... kinda my point, it was great having all the lower order batting, but outside Pollock none of the current bowlers would be replaced by any of the past allrounder bowlers.
I know it has been said for many times but having Kallis around really, really spoiled us for 10 years. We are lucky that QDK came along, because we can now find a #7 batsmen/bowler... if QDK was the standard #7 batting wk, what then? Crossing fingers for Mulder, could change the entire SA team selection conundrum.
SeamUp
International Coach
On Mulder, do you think CSA did the right thing announcing the squad when they did ?
In my opinion I don't think it was that major. It just would have helped prepare him for the intensity of the next level. Plus he wasn't out. It was a shocker according to Stuart Hess.
Heboric
International Debutant
I think Kuiper would have had a fat IPL contract if he played in this era.
Talking of allrounders did you guys read this article (dont worry its not by The Suns missing 'journalist' )
Where would South Africa be if Kallis hadn't played the way he did? | The Cricket Monthly | ESPN Cricinfo
I know its a what if / alt history type article but still pretty interesting
Talking of allrounders did you guys read this article (dont worry its not by The Suns missing 'journalist' )
Where would South Africa be if Kallis hadn't played the way he did? | The Cricket Monthly | ESPN Cricinfo
I know its a what if / alt history type article but still pretty interesting
StephenZA
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Squad announcement was fine for me. I think it may have been a bigger surprise for Phehlukwayo and Morris; we all knew that the minute Gibson and co thought he was ready, Mulder was going to be picked. Gibson had already made some positive comments. I think that Bavuma coming back has helped the selection along with Ngidi in the squad. It really has become more Mulder in for Morris, Bavuma in for Phehlukwayo which I'm happy with.
StephenZA
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Except for the extreme fancifulness near the end (still amusing!) it is what I've always believed, Kallis kept the SA top order together for majority of his career but he had to, not because he was a selfish or stodgy player....
SeamUp
International Coach
Definitely don't agree with everything but I certainly do agree he was the glue to our batting line-up and when you have a guy averaging nearly 60 for a long time and could bowl and then guys batting around him you will always have a competitive score and win the majority of your test matches like we did. G.Kirsten/Cullinan the quality experience to start with Cronje/Rhodes admired by the SA public and fighters and then Gibbs/Smith with him in the beginning and then the total unleashing with Smith, Amla, AB, Faf etc
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SeamUp
International Coach
Funnily enough I had a feeling this was going to happen and I was going to mention it on the SA selection thread but forgot.
I was thinking about his dad spilling the beans and then his wife (child/pregnant?) still working in Oz while he was playing international cricket in SA.
Set for the English summer I reckon.
Real pity. Loss #2 of the big 7 after JP (who much was expected). Just AB, Faf, Hash, Vern & Steyn left now.