***Official*** Australia in New Zealand 2016

[Zinzan]

Wee bit of swing from Hazel.

 

[straw man]

that's the job he's been given.

look, i don't think he's going to make it either. i just think he cops far too much stick on here for changing himself from a swing bowler to that bang it in bouncer pie thrower because mchesson told him to, and then into Mr Boring who bowls long spells because again that's what the team requires.

Since the Hobart test I've always wanted Bracewell to be Mr Boring because I didn't think he had what it took to be anything else. He's trying that. He's still not really accurate enough and hence, fourth seamer at best.

 

[Zinzan]

2. The requests for green pitches is not aggressive and betrays a lack of confidence. It's not trusting our skills to do a job. We need to trust our bowlers to take wickets with a little help, not a lot of help, and we need to stop placing results in the hands of a coin toss.

.

Especially since we can't seem to buy an important toss win in the last few years with the exception of the WC final (which we might have been better losing)

 

[Stace]

So Voges only averages 97 now after being exposed by Craig, what a hack.

 

[Zinzan]

I question whether Bracewell would even make Sheffield Shield level if he was Australian tbh, in spite of his famous 6-fer there.

 

[Bahnz]

that's the job he's been given.

look, i don't think he's going to make it either. i just think he cops far too much stick on here for changing himself from a swing bowler to that bang it in bouncer pie thrower because mchesson told him to, and then into Mr Boring who bowls long spells because again that's what the team requires.

meanwhile those same posters pretend jeetan patel is worth five minutes of our time when discussing test spinners and both the nz side and posters bend over backwards to shelter the two glory boys who haven't done anything since England. boult sent down a shower of **** all summer and southee is bowling like it's 2010 all over again with how "unlucky" he is. loopy 128kph line and length isn't unlucky, it's southee bowling **** in between some spells of decency to hide it. he's a far cry from 2013 and boult isn't in the same solar system as 2015.

this isn't a world class bowling attack anymore, and people need to stop blaming it all on doug bracewell and mark craig. matt henry and ed nuttall aren't third seamers, they're the swing bowling new ball replacements for southee and boult if they don't get their acts together.

neil wagner should come in because he's so damn good at cleaning up any mess on a flat pitch, but apart from that there isn't much else to do except congratulate the australian batsmen and help southee and boult find their world class ways again.

and why the **** isn't adam milne playing this shield round?

#flop

This is all just your supposition of what’s happened by the way. None of us have been privy to the conversations that have gone on in the dressing room. We don’t know why Doug bowls the way he does. And his qualities as a swing bowler were only really evident in one game (glorious as it was). At this point it’s hard not to discount it as an outlier.

And unless you’re arguing for Southee and Boult to be dropped, all of your posting from the 2nd paragraph onwards is off point. I’m not blaming everything on Bracewell. But what has been fairly evident for some time now is that he’s not good enough to fill the roll he’s been given. He's not accurate enough and doesn't present the seam well enough to get wickets nipping the ball around on a green top (Henry would be much better in this role) and he's not hostile and bat**** crazy enough to play the enforcer/endurance role (like ride of the Valkyries is).

Anyway, I don't think we're really that far apart given that the main defence for Doug offered on here today is "Well Tim and Trent aren't bowling well either".

 

[straw man]

I question whether Bracewell would even make Sheffield Shield level if he was Australian tbh, in spite of his famous 6-fer there.

2016 Bracewell is a bowler NZ would have been very happy with when our attack was end-of-career Martin, early Southee and whoever else. But still might not make a Shield team.

 

[hendrix]

I do think that Bracewell is Just Not That Good (TM), and it does irk me that he gets in the team whenever the pitch appears green and he's showing the slightest hint at form.

We've known for over a year that I was wrong about Wagner and Blocky was right. We've also known that both Bracewell and Henry has failed in the 3rd seamer role. Quite consistently in the case of Bracewell. But Wagner has succeeded.

It really has been disappointing to see the lack of faith in Wagner when the consistent selection policies has been a hallmark for the rest of the team.

 

[Flem274*]

mccullum has restored this team but there is one thing in the past year i wish he did differently

using the UAE "letting go" test as a model for the team and his own batting philosophy, and not the second innings of both previous basin tests where the team said "we will not die" and even won one of those tests from the losingest position to ever losing.

 

[straw man]

Of course we're falling into the trap of discussing underperforming bowlers when our batsman are truly to blame for this match position. Pity though there's noone else really demanding selection as a batsman right now though, so we're pretty much stuck with what we've got.

And yeah, that means senior players need to do the business.

 

[Bahnz]

I do think that Bracewell is Just Not That Good (TM), and it does irk me that he gets in the team whenever the pitch appears green and he's showing the slightest hint at form.

We've known for over a year that I was wrong about Wagner and Blocky was right. We've also known that both Bracewell and Henry has failed in the 3rd seamer role. Quite consistently in the case of Bracewell. But Wagner has succeeded.

It really has been disappointing to see the lack of faith in Wagner when the consistent selection policies has been a hallmark for the rest of the team.

Yeah, especially because the argument that Wagner is a bit of a liability in favourable bowling conditions is overstated anyway. Anyone who saw him bowl on day 2 v India at Eden Park can attest to the fact that the guy can make it seam and swing.

 

[Zinzan]

Yup, I feel that same shameful irony since I was calling for Wagner's head 12 months ago when in hindsight he's been by far as best first change/ 4th pace bowler for years. Averaged south of 30 in the last 18 mths IIRC

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Not going to read to much into that bowling performance. Two classy innings and a lack of scoreboard pressure can go a long way towards making even the best of bowlers look ****.

 

[hendrix]

Averaged south of 30 in the last 18 mths IIRC

This makes it absolutely ridiculous that he isn't a lock in the team.

 

[hendrix]

also, despite Wagner's lack of ***iness, his missus is pretty hot. And I don't even like white chicks.

There's more to him than meets the eye, IMO.

 

[Flem274*]

This is all just your supposition of what’s happened by the way. None of us have been privy to the conversations that have gone on in the dressing room. We don’t know why Doug bowls the way he does. And his qualities as a swing bowler were only really evident in one game (glorious as it was). At this point it’s hard not to discount it as an outlier.

And unless you’re arguing for Southee and Boult to be dropped, all of your posting from the 2nd paragraph onwards is off point. I’m not blaming everything on Bracewell. But what has been fairly evident for some time now is that he’s not good enough to fill the roll he’s been given. He's not accurate enough and doesn't present the seam well enough to get wickets nipping the ball around on a green top (Henry would be much better in this role) and he's not hostile and bat**** crazy enough to play the enforcer/endurance role (like ride of the Valkyries is).

Anyway, I don't think we're really that far apart given that the main defence for Doug offered on here today is "Well Tim and Trent aren't bowling well either".

it's not off point at all. i don't mean to single you out because you're reasonable about it, but you do have a foot in the door of the crowd who will write long posts tearing into doug and craig, end it backing jeetan patel and be very silent on the two who are above criticism. athlai is more deserving of this grouch than you.

the main defence for doug here today is he has bowled well without luck (the one that gets used for Southee ever since a long time ago). neil wagner is the better bowler, matt henry is not a third seamer.

and my name is not ian i swear.

 

[Flem274*]

Yup, I feel that same shameful irony since I was calling for Wagner's head 12 months ago when in hindsight he's been by far as best first change/ 4th pace bowler for years. Averaged south of 30 in the last 18 mths IIRC

yup, though there was a period where he did need to be hidden because he was bowling terribad. it was when he was dropped for dougeh iirc and it was the right short term call.

also, despite Wagner's lack of ***iness, his missus is pretty hot. And I don't even like white chicks.

There's more to him than meets the eye, IMO.

 

[Bahnz]

the main defence for doug here today is he has bowled well without luck (the one that gets used for Southee ever since a long time ago). neil wagner is the better bowler, matt henry is not a third seamer.

and my name is not ian i swear.

Again though, the difference is that even when Southee bowls well without luck he still averages 35-40.

I am very disappointed in Southee regarding his form in the 2015 year (I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt for this match given that it sounded like he was still in pain going into it). I was really hoping that he had blossomed into an Anderson-class beast with old ball and new. That obviously hasn't happened. A part of me can't help but wonder whether Tim's legendary reputation for getting on the piss and mucking around doesn't betray a fundamentally poor work ethic that will always prevent him from becoming the bowler that he can be in the long term.

 

[Meridio]

Sounds like the Doom and Gloom thread will be getting a dig soon.

 

[Bahnz]

also, despite Wagner's lack of ***iness, his missus is pretty hot. And I don't even like white chicks.

There's more to him than meets the eye, IMO.

Nah, I think what meets the eye is probably mostly responsible for this. Walked past him at the Basin yesterday, and fmd if ever there was a man who meets Hitler's ideal of the the purebreed blue-eyed, blond haired Aryan master race it's Wags. A casual glance at those saphire blues after a couple drinks on a friday night and it'd be all she wrote.