***Official Australia in India***

[Precambrian]

Looking forward to see Ganguly playing with abandon, as anyway he's off after this series, if not before.

Badri's comeback is huge morale booster for him, and to many out there like Vijay etc to grind it out in First class to earn a spot in test team than some overrated performances in ODIs. Should be Kaif post Ganguly.

 

[Burgey]

I'm hoping they see some cracks and pick McGain and Krezja. That'll be one of the happier days of my life (yes, that says more about my life than the Australian selection, but still ).

Man, now I'm getting excited for this series. It's starting to creep up on me, though they do have to be careful about not overdoing it.

Reports here this morning are McGain is likely to be coming home - was unable to bowl properly at practice due to his injury apparently, which leavs the spinning stuff pretty much to Krezja.

 

[silentstriker]

Reports here this morning are McGain is likely to be coming home - was unable to bowl properly at practice due to his injury apparently, which leavs the spinning stuff pretty much to Krezja.

Interesting, if his injury was known, why was he picked in the first place? In any case, this could be a blessing in disguise for Australia. They may elect not to play Krezja in India, and go with four pace bowlers out of necessity, which is the better plan anyway, even if McGain was healthy.

 

[howardj]

If people think Casson is the answer over there in India right now, then they are asking the wrong question. I love Beau, he's such a fresh, irrepressible, enthusiastic character. However, from the evidence in the West Indies, he clearly has a long way to go in terms of his control. That's not to say that he won't be back, but I wouldn't like to see him fed to the wolves at this point.

 

[Burgey]

Interesting, if his injury was known, why was he picked in the first place? In any case, this could be a blessing in disguise for Australia. They may elect not to play Krezja in India, and go with four pace bowlers out of necessity, which is the better plan anyway, even if McGain was healthy.

I think they're saying it's a back injury which is affecting his shoulder movements.

I see what you're saying about the attack mate, but if the pitches are going to be low turners, I don't see how they can't pick a spinner. As an example, say India were touring here and they had a mud pace attack, but good spinners. They're playing on an old-style Perth pitch. Now their strength which they perhaps ought to play to is their spinners, but the wicket is uber-conducive to pace. What should they do?
Over-simplistic example I know, but I dont think Australia will risk going in without a recognised spinner if the conditions are spin-friendly.

 

[Top_Cat]

I just think he'd be a better bowler on surfaces that took spin, basically. He doesn't get much response from Australian surfaces and Casson being a wristy is affected less by this. It's not so much that I think you should always take a finger spinner to India, but that I think this finger spinner in particular would benefit a great deal from Indian pitches in comparison to what he gets at home, and therefore improve his record. If Casson had done more than performed decently for half a season I'd have him in there, but with none of the spinners actually have a genuine case at all, I'd go with the one I've always thought had something to him, which is Krejza.

I'd be more inclined to go on with this if you hadn't changed your mind for virtually no reason in a short space of time, TBH.

Dunno what I was thinking. Maybe it's what happens when you're talking about the merits of blokes with such poor FC records; the signal-to-noise ratio is low, opinions fluctuate. Alright, I got nothing. Casson my pick. Krejza has the 'something' about him (personally, his hair) but what he does not have is performance, at this stage. All visiting spinners have been shredded by this Indian batting line-up over the years but the wristies have at least threatened.

Bring back Tim May, tbh.

 

[Nate]

Totally with Prince on the Krejza > Casson call for India. Will bowl better on Indian decks. Just how much better will be interesting.

 

[silentstriker]

I think they're saying it's a back injury which is affecting his shoulder movements.

I see what you're saying about the attack mate, but if the pitches are going to be low turners, I don't see how they can't pick a spinner. As an example, say India were touring here and they had a mud pace attack, but good spinners. They're playing on an old-style Perth pitch. Now their strength which they perhaps ought to play to is their spinners, but the wicket is uber-conducive to pace. What should they do?
Over-simplistic example I know, but I dont think Australia will risk going in without a recognised spinner if the conditions are spin-friendly.

The theory is flawed because you are not choosing between a great spinner and a great fast bowler. You are choosing between a good fast bowler and a possibly crap spinner. Someone many consider to be the greatest spin bowler of all time probably wasn't worth his selection in India, and you are considering someone who has an FC average of 40+?

If your pace attack was crap, then you can pick a good spinner and hope the pitch will carry him. But your pace bowlers are in form, and are probably at least pretty good, vs. a spin bowler who is going to get murdered.

The analogous situation would be India picking Ashish Nehra as a 4th bowler on a pacey wicket over Anil Kumble because 'it's Australia'. You don't do it. You pick your best bowlers, and if its close, then its fair enough to bring on the horses for courses deal, but it's not close at all. Warne was beaten, so was Stuart MacGill and so was Hogg in the last series, so either you are thinking this guy will do what they couldn't, and have some reason that he will, or you are hoping he'll mesmerize the opposition like Mendis did. If its the latter, I'd say that it is much too big of a desperate move for a world champion side like Australia. It is very doubtful that a solid Australian fast bowler will out and out suck in India, considering their usual quality of being at least decent bowlers. It is not very hard to imagine a spinner getting flogged to bits in India though.

I wouldn't put Ashish Nehra as my great big hope against Ponting at Perth, and you shouldn't want to do the same thing here.

 

[pasag]

Except you're not playing Aussie FC teams on those wickets. At best, it would be a wash and he'd maintain his record. At worst, he will be slaughtered.

With that said, I don't know anything about the guy so I don't know how good of a selection this is. But in general, bad FC record would not give you any confidence whatsoever to succeed (unless of course he is just coming off a marvelous season). Warne did better at the Test level than the Aussie FC level, but not in India.

The point is that the statistics and the record have to be taken with a grain of salt and here where virtually none of us have seen him play much I'd initially trust the selectors to be able to predict which spinners may succeed in India on turning tracks. It's not as simple as looking at the bloke's cricinfo page and making a snap judgement in these unique circumstances.

 

[pasag]

The theory is flawed because you are not choosing between a great spinner and a great fast bowler. You are choosing between a good fast bowler and a possibly crap spinner. Someone many consider to be the greatest spin bowler of all time probably wasn't worth his selection in India, and you are considering someone who has an FC average of 40+?

If your pace attack was crap, then you can pick a good spinner and hope the pitch will carry him. But your pace bowlers are in form, and are probably at least pretty good, vs. a spin bowler who is going to get murdered.

The analogous situation would be India picking Ashish Nehra as a 4th bowler on a pacey wicket over Anil Kumble because 'it's Australia'. You don't do it. You pick your best bowlers, and if its close, then its fair enough to bring on the horses for courses deal, but it's not close at all. Warne was beaten, so was Stuart MacGill and so was Hogg in the last series, so either you are thinking this guy will do what they couldn't, and have some reason that he will, or you are hoping he'll mesmerize the opposition like Mendis did. If its the latter, I'd say that it is much too big of a desperate move for a world champion side like Australia. It is very doubtful that a solid Australian fast bowler will out and out suck in India, considering their usual quality of being at least decent bowlers. It is not very hard to imagine a spinner getting flogged to bits in India though.

I wouldn't put Ashish Nehra as my great big hope against Ponting at Perth, and you shouldn't want to do the same thing here.

Johnson is crap at this stage that's the point. If Glenn McGrath was sitting on the sidelines we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[silentstriker]

The point is that the statistics and the record have to be taken with a grain of salt and here where virtually none of us have seen him play much I'd initially trust the selectors to be able to predict which spinners may succeed in India on turning tracks. It's not as simple as looking at the bloke's cricinfo page and making a snap judgement in these unique circumstances.

Hence my disclaimer that I don't know him and his stats may not reflect his true ability, especially if he has shown marked improvement that is not yet reflected in his stats.

 

[silentstriker]

Johnson is crap at this stage that's the point. If Glenn McGrath was sitting on the sidelines we wouldn't be having this discussion.

But even if he is crap, do you really think he would do worse than a spinner? I am willing to lay my avatar for a month that if Krejza plays at least two tests, he will average worse than 40 and go for more than 3 an over.

 

[silentstriker]

And even if Johnson is crap, he can run in and bounce a couple at people's heads and he'll get Ganguly, or play defensively otherwise and he can at least hold an end. A spinner can't do that very easily. So a crap fast bowler might still be preferable to a crap spinner, or perhaps even a mediocre spinner.

 

[pasag]

But even if he is crap, do you really think he would do worse than a spinner? I am willing to lay my avatar for a month that if Krejza plays at least two tests, he will average worse than 40 and go for more than 3 an over.

Yes I do, he's been that poor recently. Look he may well fail, but I think a) we have enough bowling options to cover it up if he does in the first Test and b) the other options aren't very attractive either and it's worth the risk.

 

[silentstriker]

Yes I do, he's been that poor recently. Look he may well fail, but I think a) we have enough bowling options to cover it up if he does in the first Test and b) the other options aren't very attractive either and it's worth the risk.

But that's the thing. The likely option of him playing only one/two Test and dropped is not doing him, or Australia, any service because doing badly may not mean he can't be the regular spinner. But even if he turn out as well as Warne, which would obviously have everyone in world cricket jumping for joy, he still may not be as useful as Johnson. So where is the upside here?

 

[silentstriker]

And I was thinking maybe Bollinger and not Johnson, from what I hear, he has been in form, leading the Aussie domestic charts - which can't be an easy thing to do.

 

[pasag]

But that's the thing. The likely option of him playing only one/two Test and dropped is not doing him, or Australia, any service because doing badly may not mean he can't be the regular spinner. But even if he turn out as well as Warne, which would obviously have everyone in world cricket jumping for joy, he still may not be as useful as Johnson. So where is the upside here?

Huh? On what do you base these comments? Why have you elevated Johnson?

 

[Top_Cat]

Here's a quiz question for you all; can anyone name a, big-turning, handy lower-order batsman, off-spinner who played for NSW, in-and-out of his FC side, average about 40-odd in FC cricket and rated more highly by his peers than his record suggests? If you said 'Jason Krezja', you'd be wrong!

Gav Robertson was picked for the 1998 tour of India despite not being in the NSW side. He was an offie who could turn the ball miles and was playing grade cricket when asked to go on tour, having always been rated quite highly by blokes like Steve Waugh but was generally written-off for NSW (can just imagine the look on MacGill's face when he missed out on the Indian tour and Gav Robertson got it). Took 4-fer in his first Test innings but thereafter was generally spanked. Batted handily too.

The parallels are quite striking between what happend to him and what's happening to Krezja, thinking the selectors are hoping he'll do the same or better than Robertson. Only problem with this logic, though, is that Warne was also in the side. Krejza being thrown in as the lone spinner is bordering on cruel. The upside for him is that Sachin and Dravid don't resemble the players they were in 1998 but geez, this isn't looking good.....

EDIT: Another factor in Robbo's favour was that he was never going to play any more than the tour so he coudl relax about his bowling, knowing he had nothing to lose and would have some nice stories about bowling to Sachin in the form of his life to tell the grannies about. Krejza, on the other hand, is a young bloke with a career still ahead of him. Playing him at this stage is a huge risk, might never bounce back from a trouncing.

FURTHER EDIT: I had a suspicion and checked, 1997/98 was the year Colin Miller dominated the bowling when he switched to offies. Anyone remember why he didn't go to India?

 

[Johnners]

Love Robbo, bring him back imo.

 

[Top_Cat]

Love Robbo, bring him back imo.

Bowled well against South Australia too many times for me to agree with that. If not for SA, he'd have averaged 60+ I'm sure of it, the bastard.