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***Official*** Australia in India 2013 Short formats
- Thread starter NUFAN
- Start date
benchmark00
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Chappell's an idiot if he thinks bats are getting heavier.
benchmark00
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Well tbf he's an idiot even if he doesn't think that.
Arjun
Cricketer Of The Year
There's a new article on Cricinfo, where they analyse what Dhoni says about two new balls hampering spinners and hampering his team a lot. That's just an excuse. He's not making the most of what really is a super-strong batting lineup, to help boost his rather weak bowling combinations. They say India's spinners are affected a lot by two new balls, but honestly, India are not picking their best spinners- when proper spinners are benched to make way for bit bowlers like Jadeja, Kohli and Yuvraj, they will feel the pinch. A proper spinner like Swann/Ajmal/Ajantha/Narine cannot be ruled out. Amit Mishra fits like a glove but Dhoni seems to prefer some other folks, mostly the restrictive variety- often to mask part-time weaknesses. If they had their two best spinners (and I am serious, Ojha/Ashwin/Jadeja do not cut it as strike spinners, at least not yet), they wouldn't struggle so much.
To address support posts for Ashwin, I'll say they have to do an Irfan Pathan on him. He can't succeed as a specialist spinner, with his poor strike rate. He strikes at 39 across his career, but in the last two years, it's gone up to a poor 43- and his economy rate, often the reason to pick him over the more chippy Mishra and Kartik, has come close to five- easily, when he's hit for sixes on flat pitches. He can, at the very least, work on his batting and make the number seven place his own, as he'll do far more justice to that place than Jadders, because he doesn't need protection. They can then fit in a proper bowler. Yuvraj did well for India on crumbling pits in Asia, but on flat decks, he's not relevant at all.
The article says he's missing a Mitchell Johnson, but stuck with Bhuv Kumar. Hardly an excuse. He can encourage folks up to it to bowl fast, and flat out, instead of keeping it tight. There are folks who are willing to do so. Vinay can't have it, as he doesn't have the body for it, nor does Bucky. A call-up for Pankaj Singh won't be out of the order, although he's not even trying to be outright quick, he can hit the deck hard and use the short one well. JDU can bowl fast, since he has age on his side. Someone bowling fast can help the slow ones like Bucky chip wickets by way of false strokes, much like Faulkner and Macka have been with Mitch's help.
To address support posts for Ashwin, I'll say they have to do an Irfan Pathan on him. He can't succeed as a specialist spinner, with his poor strike rate. He strikes at 39 across his career, but in the last two years, it's gone up to a poor 43- and his economy rate, often the reason to pick him over the more chippy Mishra and Kartik, has come close to five- easily, when he's hit for sixes on flat pitches. He can, at the very least, work on his batting and make the number seven place his own, as he'll do far more justice to that place than Jadders, because he doesn't need protection. They can then fit in a proper bowler. Yuvraj did well for India on crumbling pits in Asia, but on flat decks, he's not relevant at all.
The article says he's missing a Mitchell Johnson, but stuck with Bhuv Kumar. Hardly an excuse. He can encourage folks up to it to bowl fast, and flat out, instead of keeping it tight. There are folks who are willing to do so. Vinay can't have it, as he doesn't have the body for it, nor does Bucky. A call-up for Pankaj Singh won't be out of the order, although he's not even trying to be outright quick, he can hit the deck hard and use the short one well. JDU can bowl fast, since he has age on his side. Someone bowling fast can help the slow ones like Bucky chip wickets by way of false strokes, much like Faulkner and Macka have been with Mitch's help.
ankitj
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah, but he is reserving for himself the role of doing repair work. So it's not surprising that he will have relatively higher share of hundreds in losing cause. I must have said it many times in this thread already that he should bat higher up.
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Shri
Mr. Glass
Lol.
Please no. Pathan was an above average bowler who became a terrible bowler and a nothing batsman when he tried to juggle two roles at once. Ashwin's batting should be considered a bonus. If he becomes a good batsman on his own time(maybe in another 4 years step by step), let him but forcing additional responsibilities on him at this stage will lead to nowhere.
So in 2 years time every pitch in India became roads? When did they ever suit any type of bowling in ODIs in recent years? Or did he lose his bowling form being out of action for a long time? Which seems more likely?
Arjun
Cricketer Of The Year
Problem?
Pathan's case was not handled properly- when he could be a mere striker at the lower order, and a partnership-builder, the management tried to get too much out of him. He was also doing rather well before the push. Ashwin, on the other hand, has been poor as a specialist bowler in the past two years, struggling to get wickets. Strike rates over 40 and 50 are poor. Can't go wrong with that.
Besides, we don't need him to be a full-fledged batsman like Yuvraj or Raina, but just do his bit and support the batsman at seven, and strike when needed. That's all. Already we're having a Jackofalltradeja at seven, and he's doing nothing of note. Ashwin can do just as well with the bat, or even better. Besides, he's got Bhuvneshwar Kumar to help him out at eight. Five bowlers including Ashwin and Bucky, with a strong top six, will come together nicely. No need for a non-performing six/seven bat.
Indian pitches (50-50) don't suit any type of bowling. Yet, we have the top ODI bowling units chipping away for not too many, and putting the batting side under pressure. Dig deeper for figures in India over three years and you'll find that Jim Tredwell, Roach, Steyn, Tait, Ajmal, Rampaul and Johnson have done well here in the few games they got. Strike rates under 33, economy rates decent. Unlikely entries for India are Zaheer and Umesh Yadav. My assessment is largely tilted in favour of strike rates, but that's why we have strike bowlers- to take wickets.
Yuvraj was no strike bowler. He had his success when the ball turned off the pitch. That isn't happening now, with the flat pitches offering no help. He's not unfit or rusty; he's coming off a decent OD series for India A. There is a reason why he needs Dhoni's protection all the time, which Ashwin and potatoes/beans like Ishant don't get.
OverratedSanity
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I have no idea how Yuvraj gets wickets... Mostly just batsmen being complacent against very accurate but harmless bowling imo. But he definitely dint turn the ball at all when he took a bunch of wickets in the WC... So I don't buy the argument that he needs a spinning pitch. At all
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Shri
Mr. Glass
How did others fare as bowlers for India during the same time and before? About as good as or worse than Ashwin. Harbhajan Singh did **** all for a long time as an ODI s(p)inner before him and the others didn't do much either. Ashwin has been the one consistent performer(not great but not terrible) in that particular duty for India and your arguments are failing to convince me that the reality is any different.
Shri
Mr. Glass
Exactly. Spinners suddenly leave this memory of them turning the ball a mile when they do well. Seen arguments where people said Kumble turned the ball loads to get wickets.
OverratedSanity
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Has anyone else noticed how star sports has shown highlights of the game India won 10 times a day this part week but has hardly shown full highlights of the other two games? Especially the last one....
Here I am sitting on my couch wanting to see Ishant being clubbed into oblivion but having to settle for watching him going at 7/over. Annoying as hell
Here I am sitting on my couch wanting to see Ishant being clubbed into oblivion but having to settle for watching him going at 7/over. Annoying as hell
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Arjun
Cricketer Of The Year
Ironically, the blokes who did better than Ashwin, for India, are Jadders the Crown Prince and Ishant the whipping-boy. There are two other bowlers who did well for India, at least on strike rate- Zaheer, with 21 wickets in 10 matches in India, and Umesh Yadav, who has a good (albeit unreliable) record in India. Harbhajan was poor- which is why he's been dropped virtually permanently- but the replacements should have been Amit Mishra and Murali Kartik- neither of whom are liked by Dhoni. That no other Indian bowler has figures as good as those overseas bowlers in India is a disturbing figure. I feel it's less a bowler issue and more a management problem- we're looking at a non-performing coach-captain group.
I am clear about one thing- someone with a strike rate over 40 for two years and virtually a specialist bowler has no business playing as a specialist bowler any further- either he increases his batting contribution at least to Jadeja level or he loses his place to a spinner who can chip wickets away. Even if he's in the plans as a strike bowler, a reminder must be served.
