***Official*** Australia in India 2012/13

[Spark]

If Wade had taken all the chances he should have then Lyon's form would barely rate a mention IMO.

 

[oldmancraigy]

Yeah but Lyon has been fine at test level already. If he averaged 30 odd as a finger spinner in tests I don't care if he never takes another FC wicket.

Would help if Wade lifts his game mind you. For all the spinners and quicks alike.

Well if Lyon finishes with a low 30s average in test cricket, I'd agree with you.

I think we both know he'll be in the high 30s when all is said and done don't we.

 

[oldmancraigy]

Why would selectors pick o"keefe over Lyon?Lyon is the best option.It doesn"t matter that O"keefe is a better bat than Lyon.We need to pick our best spin bowler.Lyon is better than what most people would want to believe and selectors need to persist with him.

Is Lyon better? Or did he have a hot few matches in the WIndies and that's it?

 

[Philhughesisbes]

Is Lyon better? Or did he have a hot few matches in the WIndies and that's it?

Lyon does more with the ball than O"keefe and is also more attacking.

 

[Burgey]

Well if Lyon finishes with a low 30s average in test cricket, I'd agree with you.

I think we both know he'll be in the high 30s when all is said and done don't we.

No not at all. Wouldn't concede that.

 

[Dan]

Is Lyon better? Or did he have a hot few matches in the WIndies and that's it?

Have you watched a ball of Shield cricket in the past 3 years?

I mean really, Michael Beer is generally regarded as our second best spinner. That's pretty damning.

 

[the big bambino]

Even if he did finish with a high 30s ave he'd still be better than Xavier. In fact given how weak our spin options are atm finding one who has an ave like that in fc cricket is near impossible. True O'Keefe's ave is a rarity but inspite of that he looks a pie chucker that is just waiting to be exposed.

 

[Spark]

How about we find some batsmen before we start worry about chucking an off-spinner who averages just over 30 despite having to bowl half his overs in Australia?

 

[oldmancraigy]

Lyon does more with the ball than O"keefe and is also more attacking.

And you base this on the fact you like Lyon better?
Because he might be 'more attacking' but the results just aren't showing...

Lyon doesn't threaten real batsmen. I'll be proved right by the end of the Ashes, you'll come round.

 

[oldmancraigy]

Have you watched a ball of Shield cricket in the past 3 years?

I mean really, Michael Beer is generally regarded as our second best spinner. That's pretty damning.

I don't disagree that our spin bowling stocks are crap.

That's why I'd go for the 'least offensive' spinner who can keep it tight from one end while nagging away at the batsmen. That option is either O'Keefe with a 2.59 economy rate, or Beer with a 2.97. Considering O'Keefe could conceivably bat at 7 and allow us to pick 4 quicks (obviously our strength at the moment), the selection doesn't seem terribly difficult in my mind.
To make it that much easier, whatever you blokes say about O'Keefe, he's the only spinner averaging under 30 in Australia (and leading the wicket taking charts this season for spin bowlers by a good amount)

 

[oldmancraigy]

No not at all. Wouldn't concede that.

Then I'll accept your apology at the end of the Ashes? Unless you aren't man enough to give it?

Unfortunately Lyon is what he is, a non-penetrating off-break bowler who overachieved in 2 series against weak test nations.
In 2 home series, and one away series, against average test nations he has looked awful. I fail to see why he won't look awful in India and in England.

 

[NUFAN]

Is it a guarantee he'll play though? I mean, this is a guy who looked as unthreathening as it gets on a 5th day pitch which was giving turn. Yeah, he's played near enough twenty Tests but I'm sure touring traditional offies haven't been much chop recently.

He is now our leader of the team song, he has to play!

The thing with Lyon which impresses me is that he has clearly improved his fielding and he has shown some capability to hang around a little with the bat. Wade's keeping has without doubt dented Lyon's confidence in some ways, I mean the classic edge to the keeper never or rarely gets taken so he's forced to take wickets by other means and it just doesn't happen to the opposition top order.

One thing that I was thinking is that I really hope we don't select someone in our top 6 due to their ability to roll there arm over. Given the fact that we do rotate/manage our quicks so often there really isn't any excuse to use the four bowlers picked for almost all the overs.

 

[oldmancraigy]

Even if he did finish with a high 30s ave he'd still be better than Xavier. In fact given how weak our spin options are atm finding one who has an ave like that in fc cricket is near impossible. True O'Keefe's ave is a rarity but inspite of that he looks a pie chucker that is just waiting to be exposed.

True re: Doherty. He might be one of the least attacking spinners in the country. Why he'd be considered is beyond sstupid.

O'Keefe might look to you like a pie chucker waiting to be exposed, but at least (for his sake) he's not yet been exposed at FC level - whereas all the other spin options HAVE been.
What's more, he can bat at 7 and let us pick 4 quicks. Pattinson, Bird, Starc, Siddle as an Ashes quartet? Yes please.


My argument is simple: if they are all crap, pick the least crap one, ESPECIALLY if he can do something else (bat) which allows us to play to our strengths.
Make the change early for India since we'll most likely lose over there no matter what. Give ourselves the best chance of beating the old enemy in back to back series.

 

[Spark]

How about we find some batsmen before we start to worry about chucking an off-spinner who averages just over 30 despite having to bowl half his overs in Australia?

.

 

[oldmancraigy]

He is now our leader of the team song, he has to play!

The thing with Lyon which impresses me is that he has clearly improved his fielding and he has shown some capability to hang around a little with the bat. Wade's keeping has without doubt dented Lyon's confidence in some ways, I mean the classic edge to the keeper never or rarely gets taken so he's forced to take wickets by other means and it just doesn't happen to the opposition top order.

One thing that I was thinking is that I really hope we don't select someone in our top 6 due to their ability to roll there arm over. Given the fact that we do rotate/manage our quicks so often there really isn't any excuse to use the four bowlers picked for almost all the overs.

Good point on team song. I give up!

Don't get me wrong, I've seen a lot of work and improvement in Lyon's all-round game (bowling, fielding, batting). But he doesn't look like he'll get anyone out unless they're slogging him.
Go back and watch all his wickets and Sri Lanka this summer - oh my.

 

[Burgey]

Then I'll accept your apology at the end of the Ashes? Unless you aren't man enough to give it?

Unfortunately Lyon is what he is, a non-penetrating off-break bowler who overachieved in 2 series against weak test nations.
In 2 home series, and one away series, against average test nations he has looked awful. I fail to see why he won't look awful in India and in England.

Lyon will out-bowl Swann in the Ashes. I've said that for 18 months. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong, and really don't give a ****. If it's important to you, then I'll happily acknowledge I was wrong, and wish you good luck in your sad and sorry existence.

 

[Burgey]

How about we find some batsmen before we start worry about chucking an off-spinner who averages just over 30 despite having to bowl half his overs in Australia?

FINCH 4 TESTS 4 EVA

z

 

[oldmancraigy]

How about we find some batsmen before we start worry about chucking an off-spinner who averages just over 30 despite having to bowl half his overs in Australia?

Because against Test Nations 1-5 he averages 40+. He's just wasting a spot that could better be taken by one of our quick bowlers.

 

[oldmancraigy]

Lyon will out-bowl Swann in the Ashes. I've said that for 18 months. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong, and really don't give a ****. If it's important to you, then I'll happily acknowledge I was wrong, and wish you good luck in your sad and sorry existence.

Nice work. It's personal.

I didn't realize you were Nathan Lyon. I apologize for saying you're not a great bowler, but sadly you're not.

You might out-bowl Swann, but that might not be a measure of your greatness.... (ie, Swann has a shocker and takes 4 wickets in 10 tests while you take 3).

_____

For some reason you're allowed to be absolutely convinced that Lyon is awesome and I'm not allowed to be convinced that he's crap. When I try and point out that he's crap and doesn't get wickets against the stronger teams, people respond with "don't you watch cricket?"
Well, yes I do. That's the point.

 

[Spikey]

It would be interesting if Haddin were selected as a specialist batsman and then made the XI. Wouldn't you be inclined then to give him the gloves if he's considered a better keeper than Wade?

no, but I'd be inclined to give him the gloves 'cause in a post Hussey world, Wade's little medium pacers may be in demand