***Official*** Australia in England (The Ashes)

[social]

If he had won at OT, and win at the Oval, would we go top?

I think they needed to win 5-0.

 

[steds]

Anyone with any sense is a league fan (where we've won nothing really, granted).

WAHEYY!!! Another one! Who do you follow, Mr Delgado?

 

[matty1818]

Bell has averaged 200 less than his career ave this series (artificially inflated as that may have been)

Strauss has averaged 20 less than his career ave despite having the benefit of a century where he was missed in single figures

Vaughan has averaged 10 less than his career despite having the benefit of scoring 166 after being missed twice in the 40s

Tresco has been considered a resounding success depite only maintaining his career ave of 44.

All this against a team that has fielded a first-choice, fully fit attack exactly once in the entire series

Gilchrist has scored 3 centuries this year and 4 from 5 innings prior to this series. Obviously, an ave of mid-50s, 14 or 15 hundreds (is that more than the total of the Eng team combined?), success the world over, and being voted the world's most dangerous batsmen by your test-playing peers doesnt count for much.

What's Hayden scored? 5000 runs at 52 in 71 tests. He is rated a great player universally yet is going through a slump (and not a horrible one at that).

Will he recover? Who knows but no-one in their right mind would ever rate the English duo as being even in the same neighbourhood as him class-wise.

England's top 3 bowlers have been excellent

Hoggard is ave as usual

Giles is very ordinary as usual

KP has been good but not outstanding

Jones still cant keep but has chipped in with the bat

That's been more than enough to see Eng dominate the last 3 tests but let's not get carried away with their performances either.

Ok yes Bells comparison is a nonsense, achieved mostly against Bangladesh. Vaughan has 15 test centuries same as gilly in half the time so no point there. Yes Hayden has 5000 runs but again im going to repeat myself AGAINST WHO? I dont rate him universally thats the whole point of an opinion, get one dont go with the status quo. Tres has averaged 44 in this series, if you average close to 50 in an ashes series then thats more than good and hes averaging more than anyong else on either team. Thats the basis of my whole point, its much more difficult to maintain your 'average' against the best teams in an ashes series, quoting Hayden and Gilchrists career stats means nothing. Im pretty sure im in my right mind and i also agree i wouldnt rate our openers in the same class as him, but much better.

Your failing to see the whole basis of my point whilst infact supproting it with your own rhetoric. The very fact that tres has only averaged his average yet is by far the most successful batsmen of the tour just supports the fact that your only as good as the team you play against, 5000 runs and big averages against zimbabwe mean zip.

I dont think that Harmison has bowled excellent, not doing that well at all this series, just another spout from teh status quo of Justin Langer's test diary eh? KP was good at Lord's when it ddint mean anything. Stop looking at averages and stats to support player performances from either teams, its when you do it in the now and when it counts that means something.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

WAHEYY!!! Another one! Who do you follow, Mr Delgado?

Well....Derby do have a RL side but it's way down in the muck, but still it makes us "northern-ish", which I like

For my sins, I used to room with a Saints fan (who was in a youth team with Farrell so he said) so they are my side. I'm not a glory boy, Warriors were winning everything when I got into RL.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

Yes Hayden has 5000 runs but again im going to repeat myself AGAINST WHO?

Presumably against bowlers who can't swing the ball. <Bob mode>I am better against swing than he is and I have only played three games in my life </Bob mode>.

 

[steds]

Well....Derby do have a RL side but it's way down in the muck, but still it makes us "northern-ish", which I like

For my sins, I used to room with a Saints fan (who was in a youth team with Farrell so he said) so they are my side. I'm not a glory boy, Warriors were winning everything when I got into RL.

You have exellent choice in room mates, Mr Delgado

 

[Linda]

I'm at a bl00dy wedding on the Saturday so I'm having to invest in a LW portable radio for the ceremony/reception.

On the plus side, I'll be beastly drunk by 3pm

Argh, some people are so rude. Who sets a wedding date on the 3rd Day of a Test Match?! *shakes head*

 

[Prince EWS]

Argh, some people are so rude. Who sets a wedding date on the 3rd Day of a Test Match?! *shakes head*

I seriously just wouldnt go.

And people wouldnt expect me to either - they know my stance on events set on corresponding times to rugby league and cricket.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Ok yes Bells comparison is a nonsense, achieved mostly against Bangladesh. Vaughan has 15 test centuries same as gilly in half the time so no point there. Yes Hayden has 5000 runs but again im going to repeat myself AGAINST WHO? I dont rate him universally thats the whole point of an opinion, get one dont go with the status quo. Tres has averaged 44 in this series, if you average close to 50 in an ashes series then thats more than good and hes averaging more than anyong else on either team. Thats the basis of my whole point, its much more difficult to maintain your 'average' against the best teams in an ashes series, quoting Hayden and Gilchrists career stats means nothing. Im pretty sure im in my right mind and i also agree i wouldnt rate our openers in the same class as him, but much better.

Your failing to see the whole basis of my point whilst infact supproting it with your own rhetoric. The very fact that tres has only averaged his average yet is by far the most successful batsmen of the tour just supports the fact that your only as good as the team you play against, 5000 runs and big averages against zimbabwe mean zip.

I dont think that Harmison has bowled excellent, not doing that well at all this series, just another spout from teh status quo of Justin Langer's test diary eh? KP was good at Lord's when it ddint mean anything. Stop looking at averages and stats to support player performances from either teams, its when you do it in the now and when it counts that means something.

What is this crap about big averages against Zimbabwe? Do you know how many tests Australia has played against Zimbabwe in the last decade? THREE. And against Bangladesh? Two.

Hayden has never dominated a great attack, but how many players do? For some reason, everybody has this idea that every other period in test history has been like the 90s with 4 or 5 all-time great attacks, but it's really not true at all. He has, however, done the business against India in Indian conditions where he scored 500 runs in a three test series, scored a brilliant career-defining century in sweltering heat on a turning pitch against an attack of Waqar/Shoaib/Razzaq/Saqlain/Kaneria, and dominated test cricket the world over in a purple patch that saw him average in the 70s for a period of several years. His average was not "about 75 after the triple century against Zimbabwe", it was about 57 then and has fallen in his slump since. Your short memory with him also doesn't seem to extend as far back as the LAST Ashes series, where he scored three centuries against a a varying bowling attack that included Hoggard, Harmison and Giles at various points, as well as Caddick who is obviously a perfectly decent bowler.

Hayden isn't the best test opener of all time or anything, but you don't average 50+ for 71 tests and 57 odd in a first class career that includes years of batting on green tops without being a good player, and to say that Strauss who is unproven in test cricket and certainly struggles against spin and Trescothick who has been a career-long walking target against bowlers who can move it away from him are "much better" is absolutely ridiculous.

And as far as Gilchrist goes, well that's even worse. Gilchrist has always been an inconsistent batsmen as fits his playing style, but the fact that he's been consistent enough to average in the mid 50s and maintain a strike rate in the 80s is testament to how incredible he has been. Gilchrist is, quite simply, a once in a lifetime cricketer who has single-handedly redefined the position he plays. To suggest this England attack is so good that the guys he has scored against in the past like Donald/Pollock/Ntini and Wasim/Waqar/Shoaib are useless village bowlers that he just bullied is absolutely insane.

Frankly, this whole discussion about the Australian team is going further and further off the planet. This England team is a good team, but they have a hell of a long way to go to even be worthy of comparison to a team that has dominated test cricket for a dozen years. And for all the talk of how Australia have just been a pack of overrated hacks living off weak attacks, it's funny that nobody else in the world has managed to beat every other team and have 3 or 4 batsmen averaging in the 50s, isn't it? I don't suppose it could be that the Australian team has actually been incredibly, amazingly good and they've just been outplayed in one series?

 

[social]

Ok yes Bells comparison is a nonsense, achieved mostly against Bangladesh. Vaughan has 15 test centuries same as gilly in half the time so no point there. Yes Hayden has 5000 runs but again im going to repeat myself AGAINST WHO? I dont rate him universally thats the whole point of an opinion, get one dont go with the status quo. Tres has averaged 44 in this series, if you average close to 50 in an ashes series then thats more than good and hes averaging more than anyong else on either team. Thats the basis of my whole point, its much more difficult to maintain your 'average' against the best teams in an ashes series, quoting Hayden and Gilchrists career stats means nothing. Im pretty sure im in my right mind and i also agree i wouldnt rate our openers in the same class as him, but much better.

Your failing to see the whole basis of my point whilst infact supproting it with your own rhetoric. The very fact that tres has only averaged his average yet is by far the most successful batsmen of the tour just supports the fact that your only as good as the team you play against, 5000 runs and big averages against zimbabwe mean zip.

I dont think that Harmison has bowled excellent, not doing that well at all this series, just another spout from teh status quo of Justin Langer's test diary eh? KP was good at Lord's when it ddint mean anything. Stop looking at averages and stats to support player performances from either teams, its when you do it in the now and when it counts that means something.

Firstly, I didnt realise that Vaughan had scored 15 100s. My apology and it's little wonder that he's regarded as England's only world class batsman.

Secondly, this Ashes series has produced the most pressure in my experience and I would say that no performances can be discounted.

However, a fit McGrath-led attack is a different proposition to anything the English have faced except for the first test in which England were, well, England.

Having said that, just who has Strauss faced? Windies (no-one), NZ (minus Bond and with an unfit Vettori), Zimbabwe and Bangladesh (ugggggh), and SA (nearing retirement Pollock and no-one).

I'd say his performances this series represent a truer reflection of his ability and technique.

Everyone's raving about Tresco for the sole reason that everyone expected him to be a resounding failure again. A couple of accepted chances and he may not even be a topic of conversation anymore.

As for Harmy, watch the game. At various times, and to England's massive cost, he and Jones have been massively under-bowled this series. I cannot think of a poor spell that he's bowled and he's still returning good figures.

Hayden and Gilchrist - 70 test matches do not lie. If you seriously think that this Eng attack is the only decent lineup that Aus have ever faced then you havent watched enough.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Hayden and Gilchrist - 70 test matches do not lie. If you seriously think that this Eng attack is the only decent lineup that Aus have ever faced then you havent watched enough.

That's exactly the point, really. Well put.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

Argh, some people are so rude. Who sets a wedding date on the 3rd Day of a Test Match?! *shakes head*

I have one word for them, it begins with a "c" and ends with an "s".

 

[social]

I have one word for them, it begins with a "c" and ends with an "s".

Chicks?

 

[Pedro Delgado]

You have exellent choice in room mates, Mr Delgado

Just noticed your avatar

Gooooo St Helens eh?

Must admit though I don't follow it as I used to, but always look out for their results.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

Chicks?

Not a lezzie wedding no

 

[Pedro Delgado]

That's exactly the point, really. Well put.

It's also possibly well put that Hayden can't play swing, otherwise he'd have bullied this "dobbing medium pacer" Hoggard out of the ground.

Good batsman, not as good as his average suggests though.

 

[social]

Not a lezzie wedding no

Tres unfortunate.

Was looking forward to seeing a copy of the "hens night" video.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

It's also possibly well put that Hayden can't play swing, otherwise he'd have bullied this "dobbing medium pacer" Hoggard out of the ground.

Good batsman, not as good as his average suggests though.

Hayden's not a great player of swing, but he's better than this series suggests. I think he's past it anyway, he's not been playing very well for over a year, it's not just Hoggard and Flintoff who have dominated him. He failed in India too, and he's usually brilliant on turning wickets. He even failed on flat pitches at home against a lethal attack of Kyle Mills and James Franklin.

 

[social]

Hayden's not a great player of swing, but he's better than this series suggests. I think he's past it anyway, he's not been playing very well for over a year, it's not just Hoggard and Flintoff who have dominated him. He failed in India too, and he's usually brilliant on turning wickets. He even failed on flat pitches at home against a lethal attack of Kyle Mills and James Franklin.

Exactly.

Hayden was the world's dominant player for a few years but, mentally, he's not all there at present and it's highly debatable as to whether he'll get it back.

Hayden has always been a substantially better player than Hussey, for example, but the latter is a better proposition at present.

 

[Scaly piscine]

I'm at a bl00dy wedding on the Saturday so I'm having to invest in a LW portable radio for the ceremony/reception.

On the plus side, I'll be beastly drunk by 3pm

I've got a Scrabble tourney that day, so I'll be taking a mini TV with me. The last time cricket and a tourney clashed England beat Australia thanks to Pietersen smashing 90ish and I won the tournament with a 5-0 record.