***Official*** Australia in England (The Ashes)

[chaminda_00]

that team has a awkward combination, i understand what ur saying mate but we wont be seeing that side at alllllllll. Plus having two youngster bell & KP their againts australia shouldn't be, my point stands once Butcher is fit he should play KP & Bell will get their chance later

And i think u should rethink your idea that Bell is a better batsman than butcher, i totally disagree mate

As i said it was an option it unlikely to happen cus the England selectors would probably go conservative.

Well Aussie im not the only one who think Butcher isn't that good and the only reason he kept his spot for so long cus there was no one better to replace him, but now there are two better players.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

As i said it was an option it unlikely to happen cus the England selectors would probably go conservative.

Well Aussie im not the only one who think Butcher isn't that good and the only reason he kept his spot for so long cus there was no one better to replace him, but now there are two better players.

Butcher was good enough for the job during the time that he was in the team. Don't slight him that. Now, however, I have my doubts. I think he may have lost the plot a little. The injuries haven't helped.

 

[chaminda_00]

Butcher was good enough for the job during the time that he was in the team. Don't slight him that. Now, however, I have my doubts. I think he may have lost the plot a little. The injuries haven't helped.

But do u think that if Bell was performing as good as he did a last season a years back that he would have kept him out of the side, or if KP could have been picked for England eairler he would have been still picked, i would so NO.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

But do u think that if Bell was performing as good as he did a last season a years back that he would have kept him out of the side, or if KP could have been picked for England eairler he would have been still picked, i would so NO.

Whilst Butcher was performing he would have remained there. He played some crucial innings for England during his rebirth. I think there would always have been the consideration of the youth and hence future opportunities of Pietersen and Bell. Now that Butcher has fallen away a bit and is eternally injured, his career may well be over.

 

[chaminda_00]

Whilst Butcher was performing he would have remained there. He played some crucial innings for England during his rebirth. I think there would always have been the consideration of the youth and hence future opportunities of Pietersen and Bell. Now that Butcher has fallen away a bit and is eternally injured, his career may well be over.

Yeah but even at his best he was inconsistent, at home he averages 50, but then away from home he averaged 33. He only really had on consistent season in the last 4 years, if you take out his 173* in 2001:
2001 - 35.5
2002 - 36.95
2003 - 44.5
2004 - 35.57

 

[Link]

butcher for me has underperformed for far too long now, hes still a good player, but i think we need everyone in this ashes series to perform at their best, and i'd rather have any of the other 3 players in contention for his spot in the side start ahead of him, and if they all end up being mediocre then we can revert back to butcher.
and his slip fielding is atrocious, last thing i want to see is have him drop gilchrist twice, before he goes on to score 176.

i will do you a favour and promise you that KP will not under preform, hows that, you can take my word too.

Ps, right about now i have dug a real big grave for myself. but its for my team, so it has to be done

 

[aussie]

so his averaging 26 against all ODI class teams makes him a decent batsman?
hes not accomplished at all, all hes ever come close to doing is a few finishing off jobs in a few games, otherwise hes been by and large a failure, with superb fielding skills.

well thats an interesting fact, but i dont think Vaughan & fletcher see it ur way tec, they definetely see Collingwood has a mojor part of their ODI team



well your one of the few people he did impress. managed to go at 5.44 runs an over and pick up wickets with poor balls.

even so, he showed that he has some potential, at the end of the ODI series the skysports commentary team where talking about my exact piont that the guy has potential & if he can be a bit more accurate with his bowling & build on his batting ability he could be a good ODI player for england. Come on Tec if you are truly a english fan you will look a the positives that Kabir Ali showed, dont stress on the negatives

 

[aussie]

so his averaging 26 against all ODI class teams makes him a decent batsman?
hes not accomplished at all, all hes ever come close to doing is a few finishing off jobs in a few games, otherwise hes been by and large a failure, with superb fielding skills.


well that may be true, but i dont think Vaughan & fletcher see it your way Tec, they definitely see Collingwood has a major part of England's ODI team

 

[tooextracool]

even so, he showed that he has some potential, at the end of the ODI series the skysports commentary team where talking about my exact piont that the guy has potential & if he can be a bit more accurate with his bowling & build on his batting ability he could be a good ODI player for england. Come on Tec if you are truly a english fan you will look a the positives that Kabir Ali showed, dont stress on the negatives

i didnt see that many positives, he managed to save a game which he screwed up in the first place and he succeeded on the seamer friendly wickets in the series. his bowling is way too one-dimensional for my liking.

 

[tooextracool]

well that may be true, but i dont think Vaughan & fletcher see it your way Tec, they definitely see Collingwood has a major part of England's ODI team

which is exactly why we'll remain a mediocre side for a while, because we continue to pick mediocre players. its bad enough that we have vaughan in the side simply because of his captaincy, its even worse that we have someone else simply because he can field.

 

[Link]

exactly, once pietersen is in the side collingwood has no use. Batters 5,6,7 are now taking and the first 4 should be reseverd for out and out batsmen. Collingwood no longer fits in. However i think he is a good player. He scored that 80 recently with Freddy agaisnt the indians. Also the 100 against sri lanka and the 66 against pak in the WC, are just a few instances that come to mind.
But i supose way too often he is just a passenger in the team

 

[tooextracool]

exactly, once pietersen is in the side collingwood has no use. Batters 5,6,7 are now taking and the first 4 should be reseverd for out and out batsmen. Collingwood no longer fits in. However i think he is a good player. He scored that 80 recently with Freddy agaisnt the indians. Also the 100 against sri lanka and the 66 against pak in the WC, are just a few instances that come to mind.
But i supose way too often he is just a passenger in the team

yes those are 3 good innings in 3 years. not really much to speak about.

 

[Link]

yes those are 3 good innings in 3 years. not really much to speak about.

yeah i summed that up in the post, at least he contibuted in some way. You know what, this is a disturbing point for me to make, but you say collingwood has had 3 good innings in 3 years. But in the england team who apart from tresco has been more consistant than that time period

 

[tooextracool]

yeah i summed that up in the post, at least he contibuted in some way. You know what, this is a disturbing point for me to make, but you say collingwood has had 3 good innings in 3 years. But in the england team who apart from tresco has been more consistant than that time period

thats because hes the only one whos been picked consistently over the last 3 years.

 

[BoyBrumby]

thats because hes the only one whos been picked consistently over the last 3 years.

Vaughan?

Although he's really done exceptionally little to justify the faith.

 

[sledger]

his innings against the aussies would seemingly be more than eough, a great century against south africa as well just before he became captain as well actually.

 

[wpdavid]

his (Vaughan's) innings against the aussies would seemingly be more than eough, a great century against south africa as well just before he became captain as well actually.

Apologies for butting in, but I think the issue was Vaughan's batting in the oneday side, not the test team.

 

[aussie]

which is exactly why we'll remain a mediocre side for a while, because we continue to pick mediocre players. its bad enough that we have vaughan in the side simply because of his captaincy, its even worse that we have someone else simply because he can field.

hehehe, well Tec i'll back them

 

[tooextracool]

Vaughan?

Although he's really done exceptionally little to justify the faith.

vaughan's only really been picked consistently since the 03 wc, which is more like 2 years. the only other person whos played consistently for the last 3 years is flintoff, and her certainly has a better record than collingwood.

 

[SpeedKing]

i didnt see that many positives, he managed to save a game which he screwed up in the first place and he succeeded on the seamer friendly wickets in the series. his bowling is way too one-dimensional for my liking.

i am sure he will be the first person to admit that but in the last series, he seemed to be developing a new trick or two. I see Collingwood as a grafter who makes so much of the limited talents he has [fielding not inclusive] and does just about a good enough job for England to stay in the ODI lineup.