***Official*** Australia in England (The Ashes)

[vic_orthdox]

I'm interested to hear your explanation for why because I would have thought being in and out of the Test side would be a distinct disadvantage.

Because he's only ever bowling on spin friendly wickets when they pick him?

 

[aussie]

Because he's only ever bowling on spin friendly wickets when they pick him?

true, but in the one year he had an extended run for Australia he did pretty well

 

[Top_Cat]

Because he's only ever bowling on spin friendly wickets when they pick him?

Possible but he still has to take advantage of it and spin-friendly or not, being in and out of the Test side would be disorienting. I'm not saying MacGill is a great with the ball but the advantage of being on a spin-friendly deck would surely be negated by the stop-start nature of his Test career?

If we are to believe that picking MacGill specifically on spin-friendly wickets is why he's been successful, well picking pace bowlers specifically for the WACA should have similarly sucessful results, yes? Brett Lee has a reasonable record there but other WACA specialists haven't been so lucky.

 

[tooextracool]

The obstructing fielder didn't count to his wicket, did read my post, his three wickets were Ramprakash, Flintoff and Giles. What does the sun have to do with a pitch turning or not. There no doubt that it didn't turn as much as some pitches in the sub-continent, but it turned more then your average pitch outside the sub-continent.

more often than not the sun tends to harden the wicket and get the cracks to widen in a wicket, i think anybody knows that. not to mention that when the ball is swinging, more often than not it is helped by cloudy conditions. and had you somehow managed to watch that test, you would have realised that it did seam and swing all over the place, so much so that india were ruing the fact that they went in with only one front line seamer.

 

[tooextracool]

Okay so basically this is just based on your opinion? I have seen games where one player can NOT turn the ball, where another player CAN, turner or not?
So again when Giles bowls well you are calling it a turner and when not its not a turner, I think it is all far to subjective.

very few bowlers can turn a ball significantly on a non turner. and i can guarantee you 100% that every spin bowler can turn a ball significantly on a turner.

 

[tooextracool]

Saqlain may have not been as effective after people picked his doosra, but he was still more effective then Giles would ever be. Giles is a rubbish bowler outside turners and a ok bowler on turners, but Saqlain is a better bowler on turners and not on turners.

yet almost every team has hammered him both home and away in recent years.

 

[tooextracool]

No, his whole career is 300odd games of uselessness.

yet you claimed that he was useless at the international level.

 

[LongHopCassidy]

He can be useless at FC, club and picnic level too, can't he?!

 

[tooextracool]

He can be useless at FC, club and picnic level too, can't he?!

he can, but when you play cricket at the international level, cricket at the international level is what counts because all other forms of cricket becomes irrelevant.

 

[LongHopCassidy]

True, but how does that back up your argument?

 

[tooextracool]

True, but how does that back up your argument?

because he played a vast majority of his games at the international level on turners, and since he was a very good bowler on turners, he was clearly not useless.

 

[marc71178]

Most of the time when MacGill gets pick for the one test, he outperforms Warne. In the games that I can remember anyway.

Again it's playing behind 3 great bowlers, so batsmen have to go for him, whilst respecting Warne more.

 

[marc71178]

yet you claimed that he was useless at the international level.

I actually claimed him to be just useless.

 

[tooextracool]

I actually claimed him to be just useless.

you claimed "How is it terrible to not select a player who is useless at the highest level?"

point is that he was not useless at the highest level, especially if he was picked for the sole purpose of playing on turners.

 

[Jnr.]

Has it? How often has he faced orthodox right-arm fingerspin (on turning pitches, obviously) since then?
I can think of Saqlain in 2002\03 (don't know how much those pitches turned, I'm betting not an enormous amount), and not really much else (Dharmasena in 2003\04, but Dharmasena doesn't spin it enough to trouble anyone, as attested by his Test-record).

Murali in 03/04 - didn't trouble him at all. He is now very willing to use his feet against spinners, and his favourite shot (clip through midwicket) is extremely effective against right arm off spinners.

 

[tooextracool]

No, I had every clue - anyone will tell you that Martyn used to be poor against spin - he isn't any more.

anybody who'd seen the tour to SL and the ODIs in india(yes i know ODIs arent related to tests, but he still played the spinners with absolute ease), could tell that he was a good player of spin.
i'd like to know where this martyn is a poor player of spin comes from, because as far as i remember, hes never shown any problems against spin at the international level.

 

[LongHopCassidy]

because he played a vast majority of his games at the international level on turners, and since he was a very good bowler on turners, he was clearly not useless.

I may be wrong here, but you're also indirectly saying that he is a useless bowler at FC level and below, presumably because of the unhelpful wickets.

Doesn't that contradict your original statement? (that he was out-and-out useless at international level?)

 

[tooextracool]

Simon Jones, with the exception of 1 innings, bowled utter rubbish in SA (obviously the selectors agree with me as they dropped him

so you obviously missed the 4/47 an 2/15 i presume?
and there were many many people who said that he bowled far better in his 1/69 than his figures suggested.AFAIC he only had one poor game, which was the 2nd test, and he certainly didnt deserve to be dropped .

 

[tooextracool]

I may be wrong here, but you're also indirectly saying that he is a useless bowler at FC level and below, presumably because of the unhelpful wickets.

Doesn't that contradict your original statement? (that he was out-and-out useless at international level?)

why?
is it impossible for someone to be useless at the Fc level and yet be useful at the international level?
and of course if you somehow manage to split his FC games into turners and non turners, i wouldnt be surprised if you see a significant difference in his record.

 

[tooextracool]

Did you watch the series TEC? It wasn't the spinners who were troubling him, in fact, he looked good against them, Murali didn't look like getting him out. It was Vaas who kept troubling him.

yes but that series was hardly a success against spin.