aussie said:
first of all giles was going through a bad patch in the caribbean last winter even up to the final test against the kiwis where many where questioning his place in the England side, and the tracks in the caribbean where more helpful to the fast bowlers, come on didn't u watch the series it was the fast bowlers who had most effect for both WI & ENG.
Giles role in that series has it has been for most of his career was to contain, but because of his bad patch during that series, the ineffectiveness of his containing role wasn't missed has Harmison and rest ran havoc on the windies batsmen. I was their all 5 days here at Old Trafford and has was the case in the caribbean it didn't offer much assistance to the spinners.
Err - no, Giles was not going through a bad patch in The Caribbean - he simply wasn't getting anything from the pitches, and when he doesn't he's useless.
People have questioned his place, many times, quite rightly, because on most pitches he offers little or nothing. It's only stupid selection that sees him picked on pitches that don't turn.
he bowled wicket taking deliveries, yes........., but they were also many occasions where the WI batsmen gave their wickets away via bad shots, for E.G at the Old Trafford test in the second innings when WI had a 1st innings lead of 65 and Gayle & Sarwan were batting with so much ease, Vaughan intelligently set in out fields for Gayle & he hit Gilo right down to hoggard at long on, Sarwan & Mohammed were also out to poor stroke play and the amount of times he worked out dwayne bravo in the first two test with the tactic of bowling around the wicket to him & leaving the gap at mid-wicket & forcing him to play through the vacant gap had nothing to do with the turn in the pitch, that was inexperice, stupidity & good captaincy on Vaughan's part, their were also some rough decision towards the WI batsmen so the argument of Giles getting wickets via poor shots, wicket-taking deliveries & rough decisions by the umpire can go on and on.
There were poor strokes, of course there were - there always are, lots of them. That doesn't matter - the fact is Giles bowled wicket-taking deliveries in these matches, where he doesn't bowl them on non-turners. No-one is possibly going to take 24 wickets in 3 Tests and have every single one come from a wicket-taking delivery. The fact is, Giles would never bowl a single wicket-taking delivery on a non-turner and he bowled quite a few on those turners. Any plan is not going to work, either, if the pitch isn't turning, we've seen that time and again.
and i totally disagree that were your theory that the pitches at those 3 venue's turned similary to sub-continent proportions no way. At trent bridge i dont recall Giles spinning the ball that much on day 1, the spin came more on the on day 4 when if u can recall he bowled around the wicket into the rough where there was assistance for him, Lord's had some turn but has is my point it cannot be compared to a typical Mumbai or Chennai pitch on day 1, neither was the case at edgbagston since the only spinner on view for the entire first day ``SARWAN`` barely extracted turn, the turn came more later in the test match.
No, none of the 3 can be compared to the turners at Mumbai and Chennai last winter, but they can be compared very accurately with a normal subcontinent pitch, a slowish pitch that turns to a reasonable degree from the first day. And ALL THREE of those pitches did, because I remember very clearly seeing balls turn and being near-enough certain that Giles would take wickets in the matches.
His role could alter a bit, but you have to read between the lines the shots that the WI batsmen played were poor at times & the tactics Vaughan used againts them as to the one he used againts Bravo, he definately wont use againts Australia. You cant compare those pitches to sub-continent like pitches since they were not so much of similar to sub-continent proportions. So basically his role will be to contain, so i dont see how he will become a potent strike force in the series, you are the only one who has that idea[/QUOTE]
No, I'm not - all the others who've noticed Giles' career pattern will realise that he'll be a force if the pitches turn.
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