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***Official*** Australia in England 2012

hazsa19

International Regular
Have a look at their records

He has better records in BOTH batting and bowling than either

Seriously, you guys need to start watching some cricket that doesnt involve England
Tbf I do get a bit carried away with MJ's performances against England. it's hard not to.

However it's still not clear cut as you make out. There is definitely a case to be made for Broad > MJ. The fact that Broad is rarely as consistently terrible as MJ is a good place to start.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
And you need to stop treating career averages like the be all and end all
How the hell do you think Johnson won world cricketer of the year if he was never any good?

Just because he has been crap in a few tests England doesnt mean that he has been bad in ODIs

Broad is an ordinary ODI player - the guy average 12 with the bat at a low s/r and leaks runs when he bowls

Bresnan is in the process of being exposed (sorry but you can go on bowling straignt balls at 130 forever

Overall, it's a no contest
 

Jarquis

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
How the hell do you think Johnson won world cricketer of the year if he was never any good?

Just because he has been crap in a few tests England doesnt mean that he has been bad in ODIs

Broad is an ordinary ODI player - the guy average 12 with the bat at a low s/r and leaks runs when he bowls

Bresnan is in the process of being exposed (sorry but you can go on bowling straignt balls at 130 forever

Overall, it's a no contest
Johnson was good. Bradman was good. I wouldn't back him to score too many tomorrow though.
It's not just that he was crap in England but the fact he was just crap in Tests for a while. End of.

I rate Johnson as an ODI bowler, still do. But to say that Broad isnt at all comparable is nothing more than bull****.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
How the hell do you think Johnson won world cricketer of the year if he was never any good?

Just because he has been crap in a few tests England doesnt mean that he has been bad in ODIs

Broad is an ordinary ODI player - the guy average 12 with the bat at a low s/r and leaks runs when he bowls

Bresnan is in the process of being exposed (sorry but you can go on bowling straignt balls at 130 forever

Overall, it's a no contest
Johnson winning cricketer of the year was a joke and everyone knows it. It came after a year where he had managed to make Harmison's performance at Brisbane in 06 actually look half-decent, by virtue of his own efforts at Lord's, which quite frankly were a blight on Test Cricket, and he was pretty much a laughing stock that whole summer bar the odd innings. And it was hardly an isolated incident. Sure he had come off a good series (plural) against Saffa including a world-class 3fer and a couple of retired hurts, but anyone who thinks he deserved that award has got their head so far up their own arse that it's not even funny.

Or something.
 

Stumpcam

U19 Captain
Johnson either produces unplayable spells or utter tripe imo.

Most of what I have seen has been the latter. He should be called Daisy.

Broad is off his best form at the moment but will come good again, and is not as unreliable as Johnson.

Bresnan is not the same bowler since he came back from elbow injury. I am confident he will return to his previously reliable form.

In any case, cricket is a team game - and we have the best team in world cricket at the moment. I think (and hope) the SA series will confirm this.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Johnson was good. Bradman was good. I wouldn't back him to score too many tomorrow though.
It's not just that he was crap in England but the fact he was just crap in Tests for a while. End of.

I rate Johnson as an ODI bowler, still do. But to say that Broad isnt at all comparable is nothing more than bull****.
Look at the facts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Broad has done absolutely nothing in ODIs to be compared with Johnson - averages a lot less with the bat at a massively inferior s/r, averages more with the ball at a much higher economy rate

It's not that difficult to work out who is better but you are seemingly basing it on a format which is irrelevant and/or Johnson's first match in a year
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Johnson winning cricketer of the year was a joke and everyone knows it. It came after a year where he had managed to make Harmison's performance at Brisbane in 06 actually look half-decent, by virtue of his own efforts at Lord's, which quite frankly were a blight on Test Cricket, and he was pretty much a laughing stock that whole summer bar the odd innings. And it was hardly an isolated incident. Sure he had come off a good series (plural) against Saffa including a world-class 3fer and a couple of retired hurts, but anyone who thinks he deserved that award has got their head so far up their own arse that it's not even funny.

Or something.
Ha ha

He took 80 test wickets, scored over 700 test runs (including a century) and captured more than 2 wickets per match in ODIs during the year in question

That's a fantastic year in anyone's language
 

flibbertyjibber

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Look at the facts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Broad has done absolutely nothing in ODIs to be compared with Johnson - averages a lot less with the bat at a massively inferior s/r, averages more with the ball at a much higher economy rate

It's not that difficult to work out who is better but you are seemingly basing it on a format which is irrelevant and/or Johnson's first match in a year
3-0 and your still trolling
3-0 and your still trolling

Come back when you have a good team and we'll talk then.
 

Jarquis

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Look at the facts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Broad has done absolutely nothing in ODIs to be compared with Johnson - averages a lot less with the bat at a massively inferior s/r, averages more with the ball at a much higher economy rate

It's not that difficult to work out who is better but you are seemingly basing it on a format which is irrelevant and/or Johnson's first match in a year
What's Johnson done that warrants him being held in such high esteem then?
Since the 2009 Champions Trophy (following the '09 Ashes which is kinda when Broad started to become Broad2.0) they have almost identical records.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...9;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling
So yeah, I'm basing it on Tests and/or last week 8-)
 

flibbertyjibber

Request Your Custom Title Now!
How is it a troll?

It is a simple statement of fact in response to others comments
Well be honest, on what MJ has produced against England which is where we see him most would you honestly expect ANY England fan to think they would rather have him in the side than ANY of the current 4 pace bowlers that played today?
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
What's Johnson done that warrants him being held in such high esteem then?
Since the 2009 Champions Trophy (following the '09 Ashes which is kinda when Broad started to become Broad2.0) they have almost identical records.
Bowling records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
So yeah, I'm basing it on Tests and/or last week 8-)
So you're telling me that Broad still leaks more runs that Johnson

Thanks for that

And let's compare the batting

Here's Johnson

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

And here is Broad

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa
 

Jarquis

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Well, I was comparing them as bowlers as lower order batting isn't all that in ODIs IMO, whereas they both ought to be able to bowl 10 overs.

What I'm telling you is Broad takes his wickets quicker than Johnson.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
If there was a WC at home anytime soon we'd be massive favourites but there's still a lot of work needed away from home as far as I can tell.
Won our most recent series in the West Indies, South Africa, "Pakistan", Sri Lanka and Bangladesh. We're a lot better away from home than a lot of people give us credit for; getting thumped 6-1 in Australia and our frankly shocking record in India has given people a false perception of England's strength as an ODI unit.

The other thing about England's recent series is that whilst there's been the aforementioned heavy defeats, there's been very few massive wins. There was a 4-0 battering of South Africa, 3-0 win against India (which everyone knows would have been 5-0 if it wasn't for weather), 4-0 thrashing of Pakistan and the current series, but there's also been a lot of 2-1 and 3-2 wins. Whilst our recent series W/L record is good, our individual W/L isn't as good. While it suggests a side that more often than not is better than their opponents over the course of a series, in one-off matches such as you get in the knockout stages of a Champions Trophy or World Cup then it's a much closer run thing.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Bresnan is in the process of being exposed (sorry but you can go on bowling straignt balls at 130 forever

Overall, it's a no contest
Bresnan's never been anything more than an average ODI bowler. It's a reflection of England's one day seam stocks that up until the emergence of Finn he was still comfortably our third best ODI bowler.
 

Burgey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
I admit it would but the way the rest of the batting is playing and the fact the bowling looks almost as bad as in the ashes means he wouldn't make much difference.

Being serious though, cricket matters not a jot at the moment with what is happening to him and his family. Far more important all ends up well.
Mate if you think bowlers perform the same in an ODI series after one, or indeed no practice matches compared with an extended tour with work under their belts then I'm afraid you're a little mistaken.

It does these guys, especially the young blokes, no harm to have a run in England before next year, but I don't know that it's particularly instructive as to how they'll go. I'm not particularly worried about the bowling tbh. Provided we don't agree to an itinerary where we arrive a week beforehand, I think it will be ok (knowing CA we will). Hilf will bowl well in England (iirc he was leading wicket taker in 09) and at least one of Harris and Siddle are likely. The real issue is just getting the buggers on the park. Young or old, they seem to be breaking down a lot. Part of that, I suspect, is coming back straight into internationals and bowling balls-to-the-walls from the start rather than warming into your work. It's a worry, but it's solved if they get a good FC season behind them and loads of overs. Personally think they're mollycoddled too much and their overs are rationed too much.

But the questions are more around the batting. A lot has been said about Ponting and Hussey because of their age, but I think the problem is more the top three, where blokes getting 40-60 odd is considered a decent job. We have SA at home (as well as the joke SL attack, I won't include them) this summer. Assuming that attack is all fit, it'll be a good measure before the Ashes, as long as its not too dry a summer here. Ideally from our POV, at least one but really two of the top three need a break out summer to show they're capable of making consistently big scores against a good attack. They've had a bit of time in the team now in those positions, and it's time for them to step up. The blokes in those spots need to show a proper ability to compile scores. Big scores.

Our top three will determine how the series goes I suspect. If its like your current season they pitches will have enough in them to make it a bowlers' series, but for us to win our top three will want parity with yours. So muppets like Watson, who strut off feeling great about a well struck 50, need to get a **** load hungrier.
 

Burgey

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Cheers. Two warm up games not enough IMO. I hope some are getting there earlier and having some cricket.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Cheers. Two warm up games not enough IMO. I hope some are getting there earlier and having some cricket.
Champions Trophy is in England immediately before the Ashes series, which will affect the amount of time Australia can spend in the warm-up phase of the tour.

edit: Champions Trophy final is 3 days before Australia's match against Somerset.
 
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Burgey

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They should run an A tour ahead of the Ashes and get some work into these bowlers IMO.
 

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