• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

*Official* 2022 New Zealand Tour of England, Ireland, Scotland & Netherlands

S

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
Uppercut said:
Quality post but I love how you’ve tactically skipped over Stuart Broad.
Click to expand...
:laugh: Bit of good old fashioned CW cherry picking from me, wasn't it?

Having said that, I feel like there's extenuating circumstances with Broad. He was hit badly by Varun Aaron, and I think that was a turning point for him? (Seems to be borne out by his batting average from 2014 onwards) None of our guys have been badly hit, they're just scared. Or refuse to bat properly. And with one guy who does it, and bats at 9 like Broad, it's not a massive issue. If our 8-11 is Jamieson, Southee, Boult and Henry, we have 4 guys who slog without any sense of responsibility. The worst thing is, all of them have considerable ability and if anyone of them or any person says 'that's the best way for them to play', bullshit. Jamieson is a former opening bat, who started his Test career playing properly but now is a slogger. Henry made 50 against a touring SA T20 team to announce himself, then chose to bat like his idol T.Southee. Boult has an incredible eye (4 handicap golfer, once won batsman of the year at a senior New Zealand club champs one-day tournament) but bats like a fools head. And we all know about the hot mess that is Southee's batting. We could carry one, but 3-4 is taking the piss.

I can't wait until that attitude and approach is gone. This series had too many lame lower order moments. It's been going on for years, ever since Jeetan Patel ran away to square leg in South Africa, then forward to Boult being caught at deep third man in the first Test of 2015 trying to save the match on the final afternoon, and to now.
 
S

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
straw man said:
Good rant, though it's hard to see England's tail not going down the same path when it was Bazball that really bedded in our tail's dgaf attitude in the first place.
Click to expand...
This is a fair point. I remember him defending Southee's approach strongly, although I don't believe Baz 'bedded it' - Tim's devil may care approach pre-dates 2013 and Baz's reign.
 
Howe_zat

Howe_zat

Audio File
SteveNZ said:
Having said that, I feel like there's extenuating circumstances with Broad. He was hit badly by Varun Aaron, and I think that was a turning point for him? (Seems to be borne out by his batting average from 2014 onwards)
Click to expand...
Nope. On the decline well before and after, and went slogger years later.

The 'good until he got hit' is just a classic 'something people like to say, so it became fact'.

Broad's player rating (for rankings) as a batsman:

1656434208811.png
 
S

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
Fair, although there is clearly a decline from 2014 as well. He averaged 28 that calendar year and 2020 apart, started averaging in the high single digits from thereon in as opposed to high teens and well over 20-30 regularly before 2014. Memory serves me that he got in line before 2014, and didn't after that.
 
Bahnz

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
SteveNZ said:
:laugh: Bit of good old fashioned CW cherry picking from me, wasn't it?

Having said that, I feel like there's extenuating circumstances with Broad. He was hit badly by Varun Aaron, and I think that was a turning point for him? (Seems to be borne out by his batting average from 2014 onwards) None of our guys have been badly hit, they're just scared. Or refuse to bat properly. And with one guy who does it, and bats at 9 like Broad, it's not a massive issue. If our 8-11 is Jamieson, Southee, Boult and Henry, we have 4 guys who slog without any sense of responsibility. The worst thing is, all of them have considerable ability and if anyone of them or any person says 'that's the best way for them to play', bull****. Jamieson is a former opening bat, who started his Test career playing properly but now is a slogger. Henry made 50 against a touring SA T20 team to announce himself, then chose to bat like his idol T.Southee. Boult has an incredible eye (4 handicap golfer, once won batsman of the year at a senior New Zealand club champs one-day tournament) but bats like a fools head. And we all know about the hot mess that is Southee's batting. We could carry one, but 3-4 is taking the piss.

I can't wait until that attitude and approach is gone. This series had too many lame lower order moments. It's been going on for years, ever since Jeetan Patel ran away to square leg in South Africa, then forward to Boult being caught at deep third man in the first Test of 2015 trying to save the match on the final afternoon, and to now.
Click to expand...
Tbh with Boult I don't mind it so much. A lot of the time he's batting with another tailender and his approach has turned him into the most successful number 11 bat of all time. There are occasions when it ends up looking really bad (such as in the 2015 test you mentioned), but overall I think it's been to NZ's credit (think the 2011 test v Australia, which NZ would've lost without Boult's late boundaries off Siddle).

Henry's probably the most frustrating of the bunch. The guy can bat.
 
NZTailender

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Extremely ****ing frustrating to read Kane and Stead openly state Bracewell's pick was to help bolster the batting. I wonder who was leading that push of the two.
 
Bahnz

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
I guess the thinking was "Well the top order's in rubbish nick and Tom and Daz can't keep making runs surely..."
 
NZTailender

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Bahnz said:
I guess the thinking was "Well the top order's in rubbish nick and Tom and Daz can't keep making runs surely..."
Click to expand...
Considering they hadn't taken 20 wickets at any point it's just an absolutely bewildering decision. Much like picking a four man seam attack, if the first 7 don't do the job, what makes you think picking an 8th batsman is the magic bullet. Absolute rot.
 
NZTailender

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Athlai said:
The selectors hate him and won't give him the chance he deserves.

That said - he really is competing for the spot Mitchell has secured for the foreseeable future.
Click to expand...
Tbf Mitchell should replace Nicholls and we should be looking for some other kind of all rounder.

My worst fear is they'll just expect Cdg levels of bowling from Mitchell when, at best, we should be treating him as an Astle/McMillan type bowler.
 
jcas0167

jcas0167

International Regular
Mitchell only bowled 3 overs in the first innings and didn't bowl in the second. I don't think they rate his bowling. I would have thought Neesham would be handy at 7 with CdG out. Nathan Smith, Sean Solia or Simon Keene might be handy too.
 
Last edited:
_Ed_

_Ed_

Request Your Custom Title Now!
NZTailender said:
Considering they hadn't taken 20 wickets at any point it's just an absolutely bewildering decision. Much like picking a four man seam attack, if the first 7 don't do the job, what makes you think picking an 8th batsman is the magic bullet. Absolute rot.
Click to expand...
Agree, but I guess it was just the prospect of Southee batting all the way up at eight that made them feel a bit light-headed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Top