**Official** 2005 Lions tour of New Zealand

[Blaze]

I think Johnny has played very little until this Test, and just showed quite clearly today !!
SCW will have to drop him for second Test, otherwise he will remain a liability for them.

Unless he can play the midweek games and show he is getting up there I think SCW will be silly to pick him for the next 2 tests , IMO !!

I know its a big call from me !! But there you have it .

I think that they might keep the same backline.. maybe Steven Jones might have to be the scapegoat. I doubt he will drop Johnny though. Just can't see it happening. In all honesty though the backs didn't have a chance to look anything but poor with the way their forwards went.

The Lions face Manawatu midweek which is quite a bad thing for them I would suggest because they are likely to put 100 points on them and gain very little from it.

 

[Tim]

Wilkinson saved a couple of certain tries on defence if i recall correctly.

The mid-week games become pointless now anyway because the first choice players will be rested anyway.

Auckland have a real chance of upsetting the Lions in 2 weeks because those playing in the Lions team will have no chance of making the test & they'll be pretty dejected one would imagine.

 

[sportychic33]

wilkinson didn't play that badly, i think it was just he confusion between him and S.Jones and also how terrible the line outs were going so they weren't able to kick for touch much and had to kick down the middle of the field most of the time. Wilkinson made some great tackles though especially earlier on in the first half when there was an over lap and also the tackle on McCaw in the 2nd half. But something was missing in the Lions and I think that might have been Henson at 2nd five to add some spark to it. Jason Robinson looked a bit shaky at full back, next game i think lewsey needs to be full back.
The All Blacks played pretty well in the awful conditions, putting good pressure on an already bad Lions lineout and they also gaind confidence in the scrum. Really good team effort by the All Blacks, but I think that the Lions can come back for the next test if they sort out who is kicking and sort out the lineouts and combinations.

 

[Sir Redman]

I must say I liked the lineout move that led to Williams' try...one group goes to the front, one to the back and then trick everyone by throwing to the middle where there's a nice big hole for Williams to run through.

Full credit to whichever Lions tactician called that one!

 

[JASON]

Officially according to press reports no citings on Umaga or Mealamu for the tackle on Brian O'Driscoll.

However O'Driscoll in his own statement from the hospital has implied deliberateness on the part of the 2 players to take him out of the game and the Tour !! His Lions tour it seems is over !! Seems like he is very bitter about the incident !! Understandably so and obviously very disappointed. But may be he should've taken advice from Lions Management before releasing this statement.

Richard Hill also looks likely to be sent back following his injury .

 

[Tim]

I don't think NZ players would deliberately devise a plan to get rid of a player but it was possible that Mealamu saw O'Driscoll lying there and in the heat of the moment had a go at him..which is unacceptable of course.
I don't believe it was a spear tackle like most are suggesting though because the video footage is not clear enough. It just shows BOD rolling over and then Umaga appears to knee him in the face accidently as he goes back to play.

And was it premature to give Sir Clive Woodward a knighthood?. I mean fair enough he devised a brilliant game plan for the 2003 World Cup. But he's clearly trying to use that gameplan again and the game has moved on since then.
According to SCW he believed that this was the best prepared Lions team ever, yet they appeared to have no back up game plan when things went wrong.

 

[Tim]

Lets not also forget that the mandatory Englishman to the Judiciary this time is Ben Kay for biting. Which is also a serious offence.

 

[JASON]

Lets not also forget that the mandatory Englishman to the Judiciary this time is Ben Kay for biting. Which is also a serious offence.

Its actually Danny Grewcock ,not Ben Kay.

Having watched the TV 1 and 3 news footages- It does look like a spear tackle and it seems Tana was as much involved in the tackle if not the main tackler than Mealamu.

I guess if the official nearby couldn't see a problem, then it can't be that serious !!

The Tribunal guys had access to views from 14 cameras and they didn't find any charge to put on either of those players !!

Sir Clive in the radio interview yesterday didn't seem too upset about the nature of the tackle.

Today however he has suggested malicious intent which he says he infers from having watched the video footage, And Brian O'Driscoll doesn't seem to have any doubt it was malicious and intended to put him out of the game, as he said it in his press conference with a smile !!

Am I right in thinking Sir Clive (the master tactician that he is) and Brian O'Driscoll are making the most out of this to put some psychological pressure on the ABs and possibly the referees for the next Test ?

 

[Smudge]

Its actually Danny Grewcock ,not Ben Kay.

Having watched the TV 1 and 3 news footages- It does look like a spear tackle and it seems Tana was as much involved in the tackle if not the main tackler than Mealamu.

I guess if the official nearby couldn't see a problem, then it can't be that serious !!

The Tribunal guys had access to views from 14 cameras and they didn't find any charge to put on either of those players !!

Sir Clive in the radio interview yesterday didn't seem too upset about the nature of the tackle.

Today however he has suggested malicious intent which he says he infers from having watched the video footage, And Brian O'Driscoll doesn't seem to have any doubt it was malicious and intended to put him out of the game, as he said it in his press conference with a smile !!

Am I right in thinking Sir Clive (the master tactician that he is) and Brian O'Driscoll are making the most out of this to put some psychological pressure on the ABs and possibly the referees for the next Test ?

You would be even more right if you said Alistair Campbell had employed his master spin tactics on the whole affair and told O'Driscoll to go all out.

And this just in - Grewcock gone for 2 months for his little nibble.

 

[Blaze]

You would be even more right if you said Alistair Campbell had employed his master spin tactics on the whole affair and told O'Driscoll to go all out.

And this just in - Grewcock gone for 2 months for his little nibble.

I haven't seen that incident. Was it nasty?

What did you make of the game Voltman?

 

[Smudge]

I haven't seen that incident. Was it nasty?

What did you make of the game Voltman?

Didn't see it either. Just Mealamu complaining to the ref.

The game? Well, I had just cracked open my first beer about 20 minutes before the start. I watched it at my new flat with about 5 other guys. We were incredibly pumped beforehand.

The biggest surprise for me was Ali Williams - physique-wise, he's always had that kind of performance in him, but it's taken a while to come out. The Lions' lineout was utterly abysmal - due to a variety of factors, but mainly communication breakdown IMO.

The only attacking opportunities for the Lions seemed to come from misdirected grubbers by the ABs, which says a lot for that Jones-Wilkinson pairing. Definitely not the answer to their attacking problems.

I still remained frustrated with Marshall's passing, although I acknowledge the conditions were wet. Carter continues to grow at 10, while Aaron Mauger was able to take the heat off him on occasions.

Front five really stuck it to the Lions. I liked Steve Hansen's comments that they decided to take on the "perceived strength" of the Lions tight five - he obviously doesn't rate them as highly as the Brit scribes.

Overall, certainly room for improvement from the ABs, which must be a scary thought for the Lions.

 

[luckyeddie]

I haven't seen that incident. Was it nasty?

Did you mean 'was it tasty'?

 

[Smudge]

New Zealand hookers must be considered prime beef. First Sean Fitzpatrick had Johan Le Roux nibbling on his earlobes in a rather unerotic fashion and now Mealamu is apparently "finger-licking good" in the eyes of Grewcock.

 

[BoyBrumby]

How thoroughly dispiriting. Worst Lions team ever. Well, in my memory of Lions teams which goes right back to Oz in '89.

I honestly can't think of any positives at all. Well possibly Ryan Jones when he came on, but that's it. Jsaon Robinson was awful, Stephen Jones looked clueless & our lineout was a f*cking disgrace. Chris Jack was absolutely huge there. Byrne looked like he couldn't hit a cow's ar$e with a banjo & Thompson didn't do any better.

SCW now has to suck it up & stop building his team around a triumph of yesteryear! WC was two years (v nearly) ago now. None of his calls paid off: Thomas was skinned by Sivivatu, Kay was pi$$-weak & his form recently has been that bad that he shouldn't have been in the squad much less the XV, Back was predictably shown up, Peel cost us a try, Wilko was good defensively but his tactical kicking shite & White didn't dominate in the scrum.

Geordan Murphy & Shane Williams now have to come onto the wings, Lewsey should move to 15, Ollie Smith to 13, Henson to 12, Wilko back to 10 & Daws to 9. Pick a team to try to create something rather than just counter what the ABs might do. Go down fighting!

 

[PY]

How do the Lions come back from this?

All I can say is that it can only get better so anything with a bit of bite would do me, the only thing that got me going during this game was seeing that Wilkinson didn't get injured.

Yes, I really did feel that bad about it.

 

[Tim]

The fact about BOD was that the Judiciary had 14 camera angles to view the incident and they couldn't find anything to suspect that it was a spear tackle, let alone a deliberant attempt to put O'Driscoll out of the game.

I really hope we get fine weather for the last 2 tests. It's been a bit of a mixed bag in Auckland recently with heavy showers and then the next day clear blue sky.

 

[marc71178]

All I can say is that it can only get better so anything with a bit of bite would do me

Grewcock?

 

[cbuts]

Imagine how good countries like Fiji would be if all their players who have gone on to be a success if the AB's had played for them instead (If I was Fijian I would play for them as I believe I couldn't pull on and All Blacks jumper and not feel like a traitor).

the thing is mate, most of those guys have lived in new zealand longer than fiji, so they dont feel like the are being traitors. mills came here when he was 2. rocko when he was 7 and sivi at 13. (i think). but also if they had of stayed in fiji and played all there rugby there they wouldnt have got this good. its nz coaching raising them to this level so shouldnt we get the benifit??

 

[cbuts]

NEXT.

BOD was a huge blow, but they shouldn't be putting the loss down to that. Their scrum was destroyed and they were outclassed all over the backline.
I just can't see them improving enough in time for the next test.

And the fact that the AB's were able to play like that in horrendous wet weather..well, god save the Lions in dry conditions.

their scrum didnt look that bad to me. personally that would be the least of my worries if i was coaching

 

[cbuts]

Feel sorry for SCW. He is bound to be under pressure from the Welsh and Scots backlash (Gavin Hastings and co) and will be under enormous pressure to make wholesale changes !! I expect several players from this Team will struggle to retain their position for the second Test !!

he is the fool that decided to pick an english team when lets face it, england are pretty shithouse these days - ranked 7th in the world - there was always gonna be a abcklash, especialy when it didnt work