**Official** 1st Test @ Perth, 22nd-26th November

[Starfighter]

Is it true Marnus has reduced the back and across movement in the last few seasons? Just don't really understand why if it was working so well for him.

I remember hearing this too, and it was specifically to improve his one day game. Of course, making adjustments to improve your limited overs batting can come at the expense of test ability.

 

[Burgey]

True. Didn't those guys play tour matches on Ashes tours as well?

Yeah they did, but tbh I think the guns used to pick and choose which games they played. I know Alderman was referred to as TMO (Test Matches Only) onthe 89 tour by his team mates because he barely played a tour game. Also, re McGrtha, I mean ther's barely been a bowler in history with a more repeatable, less stressful on the body fast bowling action.

I think the point you make about everyone being different is right though. I can imagine Aus wanting to try to have their bowlers at least not dying in the arse at the back end of the tour which is what happened in both of the last two Indian series here, so to that extent I understand Cummins especially not playing much ahead of the series given he is the likeliest of the three to play all five. Of the other two, I mean Haze barely conceded a run and I and many others were saying Starc looks as good in the format as he has for ages. Lyon also bowled really well on a pitch which didn't offer much for him til towards the end of the innings.

The problem really isn't the bowling. Once the lead got to 280-300 the pressure was off and the batting side made hay. That's a story as old as cricket. They bowled decently enough, created some chances, went past the edge etc, but India batted well and cashed in as it flattened out. The drama was the batting. If you'd offered Cummins a week ago that they'd roll India for 150 around tea time on day one he'd have ripped your arm off to grab it from your hand.

IMO the first and only issue here is Australia's batting, and the top six don't really deserve to live after what they've done so far.

 

[SteveNZ]

Once?

More like once too often.

150, 372, 162, 179, 196, 193, 311, 120, 188, 115, 313, 264, 237, 89, 271

So far as I can see, those are the totals Australia has bowled teams out for in 2024. The 487-6 is the obvious aberration.

Looks OK to me.

 

[Alex0paul]

Labuschagne should have been dropped last year. Just seems like the England side that the batting is a closed shop

 

[the big bambino]

150, 372, 162, 179, 196, 193, 311, 120, 188, 115, 313, 264, 237, 89, 271

So far as I can see, those are the totals Australia has bowled teams out for in 2024. The 487-6 is the obvious aberration.

Looks OK to me.

We're playing a specific team that has beaten the so called big 4 almost every time they've played them. Sounds like a case for a modest change at least.

 

[SteveNZ]

Yeah they did, but tbh I think the guns used to pick and choose which games they played. I know Alderman was referred to as TMO (Test Matches Only) onthe 89 tour by his team mates because he barely played a tour game. Also, re McGrtha, I mean ther's barely been a bowler in history with a more repeatable, less stressful on the body fast bowling action.

I think the point you make about everyone being different is right though. I can imagine Aus wanting to try to have their bowlers at least not dying in th earse at the back end of the tour which is what happened both of the last two Indian series here, so to that extent I understand Cummins especially not playing much ahead of the series given he is the likeliest of the three to play all five. Of the other two, I mean Haze barely conceded a run and I and many others were saying Starc looks as good in the format as he has for ages. Lyopn also bowled really well on a pitch which didn't offer much for him til towards the end of the innings.

The problem really isn't the bowling. Once the lead got to 280-300 the pressure was off and the batting side made hay. That's a story as old as cricket. They bowled decently enough, created some chances, went past the edge etc, but India batted well and cashed in as it flattened out. The drama was the batting. If you'd offered Cummins a week ago that they'd roll India for 150 around tea time on day one he'd have ripped your arm off to grab ot form your hand.

IMO the first and only issue here is Australia's batting, and the top six don't really deserve to live after what they've done so far.

Yep, absolutely - my point was originally around someone who said Bumrah shouldn't bowl tomorrow if the game is in the bag. Which I wholeheartedly disagree with, unless he personally feels like he should. He knows his body better than most.

I have no issue with 'workload management' of any fast bowling group, but I wouldn't care about a sports scientist telling me what my numbers were or how much I should be bowling based on their analysis. I'd know that and want a bowling coach I could trust to effectively manage it. As someone else said, McGrath could bowl into the ground and not get injured. Maybe Bumrah can't. But those guys are professional enough to know what that looks like, or at least work with bowling coaches - not sport science guys - to work that out.

I also don't buy, as you say, that any issue lies in the bowling.

 

[SteveNZ]

We're playing a specific team that has beaten the so called big 4 almost every time they've played them. Sounds like a case for a modest change at least.

OK sweet, so who comes in? For who?

 

[Spikey]

rumour has it bowlers used to get injured before 2005. working on confirming this scoop

 

[Spark]

Honestly think Marnus is completely shot. He hasn’t got age as an excuse but he’s purely looking to survive. He did something similar to his first innings here in one of the Ashes tests last year.

You can’t have a test number three facing 60 balls for two runs. I don’t care who’s bowling, it’s woeful and actually puts a ton of pressure on the entire side. The bowlers aren’t even having to think about their game plans when you aren’t looking to score a run. And if the issue is that he can’t get bat on ball then that’s even worse and he almost definitely needs a breather. The way he’s going atm you could bring in any Shield random player and they couldn’t be worse.

Move McSweeney to three and bring in an opener. I’d be tempted to do it next game but they won’t, so almost certainly the game after that.

Yeah I've been thinking over it a bit and I do feel we might need to bite the bullet and just recall Harris and stick McSweeney at 3.

 

[Daemon]

You can’t have a test number three facing 60 balls for two runs. I don’t care who’s bowling, it’s woeful and actually puts a ton of pressure on the entire side.

This is literally Pujara in the last series.

Obviously he went on to make much more but al lot of his innings started this way.

Given the way the pitch was behaving I don’t think I’d criticise Marnus’ approach too much.

He looked woeful and probably needs to go but I don’t think the approach was the issue.

 

[Spark]

This is literally Pujara in the last series.

Obviously he went on to make much more but al lot of his innings started this way.

Given the way the pitch was behaving I don’t think I’d criticise Marnus’ approach too much.

He looked woeful and probably needs to go but I don’t think the approach was the issue.

Pujara was a lot better at working the angles and getting off strike. His innings were a lot more like Rahul's first dig - slow, but still at a tempo. Marnus can't get the ball off the square.

 

[Burgey]

This is literally Pujara in the last series.

Obviously he went on to make much more but al lot of his innings started this way.

Given the way the pitch was behaving I don’t think I’d criticise Marnus’ approach too much.

He looked woeful and probably needs to go but I don’t think the approach was the issue.

I think my issue is the approach he showed first dig wasn't a one off, he's been becalmed for a while now and not just against a spell like that. You could sense Pujara batting the way he did with a plan in mind, but that's never been Marnus' go until the last 12-18 months - he's been at worst an accumulator early on. He just looks like his first instinct is survival, not to dig in and accumulate. **** him, shitbag Qlder too.

 

[Burgey]

Yeah I've been thinking over it a bit and I do feel we might need to bite the bullet and just call up Ward and stick McSweeney at 3.

Yessssss!

 

[PaulLennon]

Virat's been cooked for 5 years bro, I don't care that he scored 4 hundreds in 10 innings in Aus 10 years Ago

Naah.

This is looking into stats without context.

He is still good against pace/bounce.

Averaged 40+ in both SA tours in 2022 and 2024 in low scoring series. Was even good at Adelaide in the pink ball test last time on a tough wicket.

Plus also has been good in other formats against pace - the MCG T20 in the 2022 WC against the Pak attack on a spicy pitch.

His weakness is playing spin, especially sla on turning tracks. He gets bogged down and then gets out either caught behind or lbw.

His ODI/T20 output has still been elite last 5 years cause he doesn't have to face this issue. When it does surface, he struggles. There was an ODI series earlier this year on turning tracks in SL where he struggled.

Even in the Asia Cup last year he blasted Shaheen/Naseem/Rauf for a century only to fall to an sla vs SL in the next match for 3 on a turning track.

This article even goes into this:

x.com

x.com

 

[social]

I think my issue is the approach he showed first dig wasn't a one off, he's been becalmed for a while now and not just against a spell like that. You could sense Pujara batting the way he did with a plan in mind, but that's never been Marnus' go until the last 12-18 months - he's been at worst an accumulator early on. He just looks like his first instinct is survival, not to dig in and accumulate. **** him, shitbag Qlder too.

South African, thank you

 

[Spikey]

not enough of the doom and gloom about australia revolves around the key fact that some of our batting options include Marnus (white south african), aaron hardie (born in england, mother and grandparents are white south africans) and josh inglis (english born, perth residing tory).

(i don't actually know if hardie's grandparents are white, but come on, they moved to perth)

 

[Spikey]

i blame the private schools myself

 

[Fuller Pilch]

not enough of the doom and gloom about australia revolves around the key fact that some of our batting options include Marnus (white south african), aaron hardie (born in england, mother and grandparents are white south africans) and josh inglis (english born, perth residing tory).

(i don't actually know if hardie's grandparents are white, but come on, they moved to perth)

Don't forget Steve Smith is 1/2 English. The unco Pom genes are obviously taking over from the cheating convict ones.

 

[Spikey]

steve smith went to a public school which helped cure his aliment. i note that bancroft, the man who actually did the cheating, went to a private school

 

[honestbharani]

Labuschagne should have been dropped last year. Just seems like the England side that the batting is a closed shop

Could say the same for India too till about 2022 and even now, the batting hardly changes much. I do think there is a trend worldwide where batsmen get a longer rope than bowlers. Almost as if the bowlers are soft targets.