ODI Bowlers Poll - discussions

[Line and Length]

I'm not sure what the fascination is with Chatfield as I seem to remember everyone calling him a "Dibbly Dobbler". If picking a NZ medium pacer then why not Chris Pringle who has a much better record than Chatfield?

Pringle: 64 games, 103 wkts @ 23.87, SR 32.1, econ 4.45

Chatfield: 114 games, 140 wkts @ 25.84, SR 43.3, econ 3.57

Marginally better in terms of average and much better in SR but far fewer games and an inferior ER. Line ball decision for me. Having said that, if our poll goes to 40 then perhaps both will be "in".

 

[Qlder]

There are currently 3 pacers flying under the radar with 200 wkts at an average < 25.00 and a SR < 40.0 (12 pacers meet that criteria and these 3 only ones not yet picked)

Ntini - 266 wkts @ 24.65, SR 32.6
McDermott - 203 wkts @ 24.71, SR 36.7
Shoaib Akhtar - 247 wkts @ 24.97, SR 31.4

 

[ataraxia]

For info, there are only 3 pacers with 200 wkts at an average < 25.00 with a SR < 40.0 that have not been picked yet

Ntini - 266 wkts @ 24.65, SR 32.6
McDermott - 203 wkts @ 24.71, SR 36.7
Shoaib Akhtar - 247 wkts @ 24.97, SR 31.4

That is a really weird pair of restrictions to have IMO. If someone (with 200 wickets) averages 24 with a strike rate of 50 then obviously they're a really good ODI bowler, much better than these guys, because they have an amazing economy rate.

 

[Qlder]

That is a really weird pair of restrictions to have IMO. If someone (with 200 wickets) averages 24 with a strike rate of 50 then obviously they're a really good ODI bowler, much better than these guys, because they have an amazing economy rate.

Well I just ran a search for >200 wkts, < 25 average and > 45 SR.

Result: no records exist

So obviously you need a great SR to average < 25.00 as of the 13 pacers that have taken 200+ wkts @ < 25.00, only Ambrose has a SR > 40 (his is 41.5)

 

[Line and Length]

There are currently 3 pacers flying under the radar with 200 wkts at an average < 25.00 and a SR < 40.0 (only 3 meeting that criteria not yet picked)

Ntini - 266 wkts @ 24.65, SR 32.6
McDermott - 203 wkts @ 24.71, SR 36.7
Shoaib Akhtar - 247 wkts @ 24.97, SR 31.4

Good point. But none have an economy rate <4. Only McDermott is <4.50
200 wickets is a high bar. With that qualification, you would lose ATG ODI bowlers like Garner and Hadlee.

 

[ataraxia]

Well I just ran a search for >200 wkts, < 25 average and > 45 SR.

Result: no records exist

So obviously you need a great SR to average < 25.00 as of the 13 pacers that have taken 200+ wkts @ < 25.00, only Ambrose has a SR > 40 (his is 41.5)

Exactly. It's strange.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Fanie de Villiers is really underrated. Know that he didn't played as much as he should had, but has a better ER than anyone bar 3 WI's top guns, and only one of them played in the 90s.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Pringle didn't play enough games and none in World Cups (didn't get picked in 1991/92). Did very well in Aussie Triseries though.


If picking NZ ODI bowlers I'd go
Hadlee
Bond
Boult
Chatfield
Vettori
Henry
Santner
Mills
Larsen
Allott
Pringle
McClenaghan
Oram


If Michael Bracewell (current economy of 4.8 which is brilliant in the 2020s) bowls us to the Champions Trophy he will make the list.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Fanie de Villiers is really underrated. Know that he didn't played as much as he should had, but has a better ER than anyone bar 3 WI's top guns, and only one of them played in the 90s.

Good bowler - faster version of Gavin Larsen.

 

[Line and Length]

Having all these names thrown into the mix and, having checked their credentials, we certainly have enough contenders to complete a Top 40.
Not sure de Villiers (ave 27.75 & SR 46.55) warrants a place above the seven (there may be more) with averages < 25
and superior SRs. Could still squeeze into a list of 40 - not sure about 30.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Having all these names thrown into the mix and, having checked their credentials, we certainly have enough contenders to complete a Top 40.
Not sure de Villiers (ave 27.75 & SR 46.55) warrants a place above the seven (there may be more) with averages < 25
and superior SRs. Could still squeeze into a list of 40 - not sure about 30.

FdV is higher than a fair few already voted in personally. You can't demand a Great SR from one of the best death overs specialist Ever imo. Ofcourse we can (and will) disagree, but him being below 25 will be a tragedy equal to Jadeja over Kumble in the Test bowling list, or Graeme Smith over ABD in the batting one.

 

[Qlder]

Having all these names thrown into the mix and, having checked their credentials, we certainly have enough contenders to complete a Top 40.

You can add these 2 to the mix as well

Flintoff - 169 wkts @ 24.38, SR 33.2, econ 4.39
Shaheen Afridi - 127 wkts @ 24.37, SR 25.8, econ 5.64

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Having all these names thrown into the mix and, having checked their credentials, we certainly have enough contenders to complete a Top 40.
Not sure de Villiers (ave 27.75 & SR 46.55) warrants a place above the seven (there may be more) with averages < 25
and superior SRs. Could still squeeze into a list of 40 - not sure about 30.

I think you are underestimating economy rate. Gavin Larsen was one of the top 10 ODI bowlers of the 90s and he had a terrible average and economy rate.

 

[capt_Luffy]

As someone who rates Starc, Shami and Donald higher than most, this fetishization of SR over Eco is a bit strange, as the latter is more important than even average for anyone but your strike bowler.

 

[Qlder]

As someone who rates Starc, Shami and Donald higher than most, this fetishization of SR over Eco is a bit strange, as the latter is more important than even average for anyone but your strike bowler.

I think that's because the econ rate is the biggest thing to change in last 50 years so makes it hard to compare era's. As someone brought up Chatfield because of econ rate of 3.57, the guy played 1979-89 when 200-250 was a good score

 

[Line and Length]

I think you are underestimating economy rate. Gavin Larsen was one of the top 10 ODI bowlers of the 90s and he had a terrible average and economy rate.

My voting has consistently favoured bowlers with good economy. I didn't mention it in my last post as I was (unashamedly) playing down FdV.