NZ squad

[Kippax]

You guys are seriously overratting Ronchi's batsmanship based on one good domestic season. Throughout his (long) career he's always been very much a pinch hitter.

Ha yeah, can we just introduce the Duke already. I'm so sick of people telling me the definition of 'good' has changed forever, and I should really be invested in shonky agribusinesses by now, on the basis of their booming three-year chart.

 

[hendrix]

Who is talking about Ronchi for Tests?

Bahnz.

Really? I thought people had been calling you out on your irrational hatred of Ronchi for ages...ftr I still reckon that in the short term Ronchi would probably do better in the test match no. 6 spot than any domestic batsman not named Ryder.

Ha yeah, can we just introduce the Duke already. I'm so sick of people telling me the definition of 'good' has changed forever, and I should really be invested in shonky agribusinesses by now, on the basis of their booming three-year chart.

People just need to watch him bat.

He's like a batsman's version of Nathan McCullum. And I like Nathan McCullum.

 

[Athlai]

Ronchi scoring more runs than Anderson at 6 isn't that big a leap. But he isn't a better batsman than Watling so even if Anderson was injured we'd just put Watling at 6 and have Neesham or someone come in at 7.

Ronchi is probably close to being our next best reserve batsman for the middle order.

Who else do we have?

Flynn?
Brownlie?
Franklin?

None are clearly ahead in that list. But I struggle to see us batting Wonky at 6 if he came in for anyone besides BJ.

 

[Flem274*]

Ronchi bats below Franklin and Woodcock in a competition where Franklin and Munro are successful number five batsmen. Ronchi's merits for test selection as a specialist batsman start and end there. He is the second best keeper batsman in the country though.

If Craig Cachopa didn't play his home games at Eden Park and didn't make batting look so awkward I'd have no qualms about him being next in line since his record comes as a top four batsman. If you're going to ignore Munro's Law then Hay's batsmanship is superior to the "that's the way he plays" Ronchi.

 

[Athlai]

Ronchi bats below Franklin and Woodcock in a competition where Franklin and Munro are successful number five batsmen. Ronchi's merits for test selection as a specialist batsman start and end there. He is the second best keeper batsman in the country though.

If Craig Cachopa didn't play his home games at Eden Park and didn't make batting look so awkward I'd have no qualms about him being next in line since his record comes as a top four batsman. If you're going to ignore Munro's Law then Hay's batsmanship is superior to the "that's the way he plays" Ronchi.

This is a ridiculous way to view it.

 

[Flem274*]

Why? If he was better than they were or suited to being a top six batsman he would bat ahead of them.

Watling bats at five for ND, and until recently Hopkins batted ahead of the Colins because both were suited to playing like proper batsmen. Ronchi is the mini-Gilchrist and there's no shame in his role but when he scores runs in a competition devoid of good spinners and good old ball bowlers batting behind Franklin and Woodcock calls for Ronchi the specialist test batsman are hard to take seriously and are the sort of thing reserved for scorecard readers (our Northern English mate) and one Australian.

 

[Athlai]

You can't just say, oh he bats X in this team he obviously is inferior to a player he scores a truck load more runs than because that player bats X in that team.

No domestic middle order batsman in the country is going to displace Franklin from batting where he wants for Wellington. Wellington is also a very very fragile batting top order which is in turn countered by our strong lower middle order batting.

Wellington also change our batting order from 4-7 very regularly, I think you'll find Woodcock doesn't always bat ahead of Ronchi, nor is the reason for him batting\ ahead of him due to him being seen as a better batsman. Ronchi is an attacking batsman, Woodcock is also a fairly poor batsman while batting with the tail.

If you swapped Watling and Ronchi in their domestic teams, Ronchi would bat 5 for ND. Watling would bat 1-7.

 

[Athlai]

No one is suggesting Ronchi is going to be a quality Test middle order player, no one is saying he is of the calibre of Taylor, Williamson, Baz or Ryder.

What is being said is that he is very much in contention for our back up middle order players with the lofty names of Dean Brownlie and James Franklin.

 

[Flem274*]

Wellington do order their batting according to player style. Ronchi would never bat 4-5 for them unless there was an injury crisis because he isn't suited to it.

So why then would you play him as a specialist test batsman? It makes no sense. Add the style issue to the problem of where he scores his runs vs where it's hardest to bat in the Shield and it just isn't a good selection anymore imo. It's as poor a move as playing the Colin of your choice (assuming they can't bowl for whatever reason) in the test side as a specialist batsman.

 

[Athlai]

Ronchi could easily bat 5 for Wellington, but we have a fragile top order and about 6 blokes who can bat 5.

 

[Flem274*]

He could bat 5 for Wellington but you have a fragile top order and don't fancy sending in someone who could get out very quickly, yes. He isn't suited to being a proper number 5.

This is why Ronchi will never be a smart specialist test batsman selection. Watling will drop the gloves and move up before Ronchi is a specialist.

 

[hendrix]

I would be selecting these players at 6 before Ronchi:

Colin Munro
Cachopa
Guptill
Flynn
Brownlie

 

[Athlai]

He could bat 5 for Wellington but you have a fragile top order and don't fancy sending in someone who could get out very quickly, yes. He isn't suited to being a proper number 5.

This is why Ronchi will never be a smart specialist test batsman selection. Watling will drop the gloves and move up before Ronchi is a specialist.

Yes. Watling could drop the gloves and Ronchi could keep.

Or if Watling says he wants to keep the gloves, Ronchi could still come in and Watling could bat ahead of him. Thats fine, still means Ronchi is a specialist bat regardless of where he ends up in the order.

 

[Flem274*]

Wouldn't pick Munro either itbt.

Craig Cachopa, Dean Brownlie, Daniel Flynn, Martin Guptill, Michael Papps, Aaron Redmond, Michael Bracewell, Daryl Mitchell...these guys all have more merits than Ronchi to play as specialist batsmen. If you want to break Munro's Law then Hay and Franklin deserve a nod.

Ronchi's best way into the side is if you look at the list above, groan and tell Watling he's moving up to five. Ronchi then slots in at 7 with the gloves unless you back Watling to survive a few tests with a hard job and want the extra allrounder (Neesham) at 7 for some overkill.

edit: Neesham > Gloveless Ronchi at 7. You get the batting plus some more bowling.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

I have no idea what all this has to do with the NZ squad for the T20 World Cup...........

 

[Hurricane]

I enjoyed it - give the points victory to Flem. Athlai needs to think of some new reasons along the lines of how technically correct he looks and there are no flaws in his game to win over the neutrals.

 

[Athlai]

I'm not arguing for Ronchi to be in the squad. Just reckon Phlegm is blinded by his hatred of him since he is both a Direbird and an Aussie.

He'd definitely be a name on the team sheet. I don't think he is a fantastic batsman or that he should ever be a NZ Test cricketer but when we're talking about injury cover and his peers are Craig Cachopa and Colin Munro. Ronchi is definitely a man you can say is in that category.

 

[Athlai]

Wouldn't pick Munro either itbt.

Craig Cachopa, Dean Brownlie, Daniel Flynn, Martin Guptill, Michael Papps, Aaron Redmond, Michael Bracewell, Daryl Mitchell...these guys all have more merits than Ronchi to play as specialist batsmen. If you want to break Munro's Law then Hay and Franklin deserve a nod.

Ronchi's best way into the side is if you look at the list above, groan and tell Watling he's moving up to five. Ronchi then slots in at 7 with the gloves unless you back Watling to survive a few tests with a hard job and want the extra allrounder (Neesham) at 7 for some overkill.

edit: Neesham > Gloveless Ronchi at 7. You get the batting plus some more bowling.

You're surely taking the piss with Daryl Mitchell and Michael Bracewell too.

 

[Flem274*]

If I was "blinded by hatred" I would pick Munro ahead of him. If you want to play tit for tat then I could go low and say Wellingtonians are overly sensitive of criticism towards their only realistic test hopeful and overrate Ronchi. Ronchi isn't even the best batsman in his own team.

Averaging around the 40 mark in the top four is more worthy of praise than scoring runs at number 7 due to how PS cricket currently works, and anyone who watches them can tell Michael Bracewell and others are closer to being proper batsmen than Luke Ronchi, not that it matters because in the event of injury I would elevate Watling and insert Neesham at 7 before playing many of those I listed.

Ronchi is an excellent keeper batsman reserve but would be an awful specialist batsman selection due to the way he plays and where he bats, and if you want to put someone at 7 then Neesham offers more.

 

[Athlai]

This isn't about whether Ronchi would be a good Test batsman or whether he is even next in line.

What I am arguing is that his name would be with the next 5 or so blokes for that position.