Not Enough Pace for this Level

[Top_Cat]

I don't disagree, I just don't think that's any more true at test level than it is at FC level. A medium-fast bowler who doesn't find any seam movement or bounce really isn't likely to be a big success in FC games either.

Hmmm, would argue that it's more important at Test level to be hitting the seam regularly at a reasonable pace. Guys who are predominantly swing bowlers can do well at FC level, the top 10 Shield wicket-takers list from this past season is full of them. But, in my view, not one of them should be played any higher or if they are, it's only because there's noone else. Guys like Trent Copeland are in this bracket for me.

 

[Furball]

Surely that doesn't even come close to outweighing the fact his Test average was about 23-24 though

Not sure if you're correct. Past performance is hugely over-rated.

Clark's career average was heading north and his average of 23 is more representative of the fact that he debuted at his peak. If a player is heading dramatically downhill then his past average doesn't really matter..

 

[GIMH]

I dunno. Average tells you how good a player has been overall, not how good they currently are. Ryan Sidebottom's average is among the best of any seamer we've had in the 21st century; only Simon Jones, Tremlett and Finn's are better IIRC. Nonetheless, the selectors had (rightly) seen enough. Now whether the Aussie selectors made the right call is highly questionable, given the filth that was served up during the winter. Nonetheless, I imagine they used the same logic as ours did with Sidey.

Edit - @ Spark. Forgot to quote.

 

[Spark]

Not sure if you're correct. Past performance is hugely over-rated.

Clark's career average was heading north and his average of 23 is more representative of the fact that he debuted at his peak. If a player is heading dramatically downhill then his past average doesn't really matter..

Yeah but we're talking three poor innings here. One that was a highly abnormal situation. And he did brilliantly in the other innings.

 

[Furball]

Yeah but we're talking three poor innings here. One that was a highly abnormal situation. And he did brilliantly in the other innings.

I'm just the selectors couldhave gotten it right with Clark, not that they necessarily did.

Corrin's Sidebottom example is a better one. Has a better career average than Jimmeh, Onions, Broad and Bresnan, but the selectors were right to.dump him.

 

[Top_Cat]

Yeah. Some guys just stop looking like they're going to take regular Test wickets. Happened to Clark, happened to Sidebottom, even happened to McGrath (a little).

 

[GotSpin]

Thoughts on Copeland then? Has been destroying FC but some say he is too low for tests

 

[Andre]

Yeah. Some guys just stop looking like they're going to take regular Test wickets. Happened to Clark, happened to Sidebottom, even happened to McGrath (a little).

Yeah, became a real issue for Shaun Pollock too from memory towards the end for him.

In a suprising development, I agree with your points. Only thing I would suggest though is once we dropped Clark, even though he wasn't gonna take bagfulls, we did lose the ability to tie up an end effectively cause our other quicks lack his discipline.

 

[Redbacks]

Was discussing the other day with a tennis fan as to why the top players hit the ball as hard as they can, when conceivably they could play for 3.5 hours get tired losing to a weaker but fitter player. Thus, they could have a good advantage if they slowed the game down and played at 85%. So why doesn't this happen? (different game of course).

Even though reaction times are miniscule already, > speed, with all other things held equal, is likely to test a technique more than the same delivery at a lower speed.

At junior level it's pretty easy to see who they favour, blokes over 6ft 3in at age 16-18, and they will work on them from there.

 

[smash84]

Interesting question. I believe there is room for an 80 mph bowler who can swing it both ways, use subtle variations in pace, cutters etc. it does, however, need to be built around a very, very high degree of accuracy. Bedser style I suppose. If all other things are equal then a good quick 'un is preferable to a slower good 'un but there's other things besides pace.

Sounds like Asif to me.

Agree with what Redbacks says above

 

[BoyBrumby]

Sounds like Asif to me.

Nah, Asif is/was far more of a seam bowler than a swinger.

 

[Xuhaib]

the issue with medium pacers is they they stop looking test standard if they are having their off days have seen it happen with Asif,Clark and Pollock. Mcgrath was probably the only medium who could keep the batsman in check even if he was not bowling at his best,

 

[morgieb]

Medium-fast bowlers can be perfectly fine at test level (Asif, Clark, Pollock, McGrath). Although, there were times when they were just pedestrian. We don't see genuinely medium pace bowlers at test level as they'd just get flogged.

As TC said, it's more like seam than pace.

 

[smash84]

Nah, Asif is/was far more of a seam bowler than a swinger.

you're probably right but then it is difficult to find swing bowlers who are medium pace. Kabir Khan who appeared for Pakistan for a short while was one of those who could swing it a lot at medium pace. Got smashed all over the park IIRC

 

[Howe_zat]

I think Trent is a silly name.

 

[smash84]

I think Trent is a silly name.

Not as silly as sidebottom tbh

 

[vcs]

There's a thread here on funny cricketer names IIRC. Would be nice if someone could dig it up.

 

[Daemon]

Maybe it's a case of people looking for bowlers who are capable of turning in 'destructive' performances with the ball, something that subconsciously links that thought with fast bowlers rather than medium pacers, however true that may be.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Maybe it's a case of people looking for bowlers who are capable of turning in 'destructive' performances with the ball, something that subconsciously links that thought with fast bowlers rather than medium pacers, however true that may be.

Nah, not convinced myself. We've seen plenty of slow bowlers deliver destructive performances.

There is something uniquely thrilling about a proper quick steaming in tho, I'll give you that.

 

[smash84]

There is something uniquely thrilling about a proper quick steaming in tho, I'll give you that.

Indeed

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