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New Zealand doom and gloom thread

cnerd123

likes this
God you're an odious little man. Did all your teams win today?
My Friday League team won the final two days ago, HK beat Nepal over the weekend, India ofc 4-1 over Bazball, and BD have lost the T20I series to SL but did unearth a couple of good prospects. Mixed results on Stumped and Battrick, but all told it's been a decent couple of weeks 👍
 

Flem274*

123/5
This summer has proven it is time for a few guys in the side and coaching staff, and that the best thing they can do is get out of the way so Gen Z can take over this bowling attack.

Southee is done, and his batting vs Cummins was also a big difference today. I respect his effort with the ball despite being outmatched though, and his humility in letting other guys have a go because they were running hot.

Unfortunately we had a rapist sized hole in the bowling attack. 40 runs don't make up for being a bowler down across at least one test and when he did bowl today, he gifted 20-30 runs right back.

The fielding coach needs to be exported to Australia, England or India as a sabotage agent. I can't remember if we dropped Green or Haze last test but we definitely dropped Lyon. You don't want to be needing to take 25 wickets when 20 is already a big job in test cricket against most teams.
 

wellAlbidarned

International Coach
This group is absolutely crying out for some strong leadership. Armchair speculation but I reckon there’s a lot of skipping and half-arsing drills for secondary skills at the moment, the rot in fielding and tail end batting standards is desperately apparent
 

Immenso

International Vice-Captain
I called this team 'rotten to the core' 2 summers ago after their loss at home to a mediocre South Africa (2 matches after the home loss to Bangladesh).

The reason I use that term is it became clear then - that the senior players were going to be content to forfeit the last quarter of their peak years and phone-it-in while riding on the glory of a WTC win. And a coach who was going to defend them and criticise fans and/or media for wanting more. So the rot was at the core, not the periphery.

It would have been an almost impossible task to cut out that rot, tbh. How do you purge or shake up legends.

But it's been a dreary 2 and a half years waiting for this rotten core to work its way through the snake.

Getting closer. But still got Stead on presumably another 18 months to go, as David White's parting gift of corporate spreadsheet mediocrity.
 
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Flem274*

123/5
Tbf the batting core is genuinely gun.

The bowling core that needed to go looks untenable tho. Henry, KJ, Sears and O'Rourke are clearly good or proven hopefuls, plus we have the Smiths and Fishers making statements below.

Southee, Boult and Wagner were awesome but everything ends.
 

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
This group is absolutely crying out for some strong leadership.
It is what is holding this side back. A strong coach would absolutely make a difference overnight to how this side performs.

It's not all doom and gloom - when you have young guys like GP, Sears, O'Rourke, Fisher, Rachin, Hay, Foulkes, Smith, even the Ashoks etc - around senior guys like Henry, Kane, Mitchell etc - you have hope if you get it right. But **** me, it's redundant when you have Elmer Fudd-Stead asleep at the wheel.
 

Dick Rockett

International Vice-Captain
I called this team 'rotten to the core' 2 summers ago after their loss at home to a mediocre South Africa (2 matches after the home loss to Bangladesh).

The reason I use that term is it became clear then - that the senior players were going to be content to forfeit the last quarter of their peak years and phone-it-in while riding on the glory of a WTC win. And a coach who was going to defend them and criticise fans and/or media for wanting more. So the rot was at the core, not the periphery.

It would have been an almost impossible task to cut out that rot, tbh. How do you purge or shake up legends.

But it's been a dreary 2 and a half years waiting for this rotten core to work its way through the snake.

Getting closer. But still got Stead on presumably another 18 months to go, as David White's parting gift of corporate spreadsheet mediocrity.
Bravo. Wish I could upvote this twice.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
You guys always lose to Aus though. If you wanna fix that, you gotta get someone from the outside as a coach IMO. Otherwise, this side is fine.
 

Days of Grace

International Captain
Steve Rixon was the best coach we have ever IMO. The difference in the side from 1996 to 1999 when he stood down was huge. It took someone with strong leadership to finally get Cairns to turn in some world class performances and to realize his potential.

Imagine what he would have done with the talent at his disposal from 2019 to now.
 

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
Steve Rixon was the best coach we have ever IMO. The difference in the side from 1996 to 1999 when he stood down was huge. It took someone with strong leadership to finally get Cairns to turn in some world class performances and to realize his potential.

Imagine what he would have done with the talent at his disposal from 2019 to now.
Iirc he was the one that introduced and insisted on a high level of focus on fielding skills too, being one of the world's top sides in that discipline, a culture that NZ cricket has kept going for close to three decades since. Until...
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Lol, Glenn Turner was so salty about Rixon in his book about his coaching tenure. I think he said something along the lines of "He knows the players prefer a drink and a root to working on their cricket, and he won't implement the discipline needed to get the best out of them." Surprising that such a forward thinker as a batsman could be such a traditionalist moron as a coach.
 

Dick Rockett

International Vice-Captain
Lol, Glenn Turner was so salty about Rixon in his book about his coaching tenure. I think he said something along the lines of "He knows the players prefer a drink and a root to working on their cricket, and he won't implement the discipline needed to get the best out of them." Surprising that such a forward thinker as a batsman could be such a traditionalist moron as a coach.
Yeah he was old school but tbf to him, he was a pretty successful coach. The second time he did it, he took over a really bad team from Geoff Howarth, who was drunk most of the time.
 

ataraxia

International Coach
On paper NZ's batting is probably the best in the world, and NZ's bowling is beginning to look promising again, but the side's solidly mid-table. It's an uncomfortable place to be: no matter how irritating the saying can be, "NZ punch above our weight" was often true, and in very many ways it was better like that than promise unfulfilled as we're currently witnessing. Everything apart from our batting and bowling has gone kaput, and those problems are insidiously creeping into the main disciplines as well. Leadership is questionable (bOuNcErZ), selection is bad, team morale is struggling, and at least what you can compliment players fueling this decline in attitude Latham and Southee on, unlike others, is their catching (at least, most of the time).

This is especially true when it matters. Whenever there's a shift in momentum away from NZ, it generally lasts for a fair while before GP fixes it up. The strengths of the Stead attitude – which IMO does deserve credit in spurring that brief but glorious golden age – have withered to dust. Please **** off more than ever, Gary.

Or maybe, just maybe, everything will go right again, in tandem, linked inextricably, as is the way, and we'll give India a fight and destroy England and SL. For one final honeymoon in the sun. But that will be because we have a good side that despite Stead finds its way to a lucky peak out of a long long trough, rather than anything else.
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Yeah he was old school but tbf to him, he was a pretty successful coach. The second time he did it, he took over a really bad team from Geoff Howarth, who was drunk most of the time.
He took over fundamentally the same team that Rixon would inherit. Cairns, Parore, Fleming, Doull, Harris, Astle, Larsen, Nash etc. The only significant additions in Rixon's term were Vettori and McMillan. He drove everyone nuts, and treated the players in a disparaging and at times ridiculous manner (particularly the infamous pre-match "You're New Zealand so you're definitely going to lose" speech before the deciding game of NZ's 1995 ODI tour of India).
 
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jcas0167

International Regular
He took over fundamentally the same team that Rixon would inherit. Cairns, Parore, Fleming, Douglas, Harris, Astle, Larsen, Nash etc. The only significant additions in Rixon's term were Vettori and McMillan. He drove everyone nuts, and treated the players in a disparaging and at times ridiculous manner (particularly the infamous pre-match "You're New Zealand so you're definitely going to lose" speech before the deciding game of NZ's 1995 ODI tour of India).
I can't remember who it was now, but one of the players from that era said Turner was very good on technical and tactical issues but needed someone like DJ Graham as manager who Cairns later responded to really well. Instead they had Alabaster who was a similar character.

The fielding under Rixon went up a level. Parore says in his book how he overhauled his wicket-keeping technique. They assembled a good support team. Psychologist Gilbert Enoka who went on to work with the All Blacks and Ashley Ross who was a kind of biomechanics guru.
 
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Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
Steve Rixon was the best coach we have ever IMO. The difference in the side from 1996 to 1999 when he stood down was huge. It took someone with strong leadership to finally get Cairns to turn in some world class performances and to realize his potential.

Imagine what he would have done with the talent at his disposal from 2019 to now.
Was also prepared to take massive risks and had an eye for talent - making Fleming captain when he was younger than Rachin is now, picking teenage Vettori after a couple of 1st class games etc.
 

Howsie

International Captain
Bit of gossip for the boys on CW. I was down in Christchurch to catch a few days of the test, caught up with a buddy who is in and around the NZ set up (not giving away to much sorry) Same guy who gave me this info a week before the 2nd South African test


Little more gossip I heard a little rumour the Hamilton test might be Wagners test farewell.
We might have a new selector after this summer, Stead and Wells really don’t see eye to eye. Wells doesn’t think he can work with him. He believes the time is now to push through abit of a youth movement, believes there is plenty of talent around to do it. Stead on the other hand would rather see guys play 4-5 years of domestic cricket before getting there chance.

He believes Stead relies too much on world tournaments coming up (20/20 World Cup every second year, Champions Trophy, then World Cup) as a reason to not bring youth in, needing experience etc.

Certain players Wells believe NZ should move on from, brought up Sodhi being one of them. Not a test player, below average one day player, average 20/20 bowler who can’t bat or feild. Stead and Sodhi get on well and wouldn’t have a bar of it. Not the only player but just an example, Stead won’t even hear him out on things like this

Few other things, didn’t like the hype Rachin was getting after the World Cup. Him coming into the test team was Wells and Ronchi, Stead wanted to keep Nicholls on. In fact it was Ronchi who pushed for Young to go ahead of Nicholls the pecking order to.

Wells is a big fan of Max Chu, believes he’s the best gloveman in the country. Has him behind Blundell. Stead doesn’t, reckons he needs to do his time like Fletcher and Cleaver have. ie too young.

Wells believes the days of us playing 4 seamers at home is done. Wants the team to develop a spinning option.

Essentially though he just doesn’t believe he can work with him. To stuck in his ways, to close to many of the senior players. Isn’t the job he signed up for.
 

Flem274*

123/5
Bit of gossip for the boys on CW. I was down in Christchurch to catch a few days of the test, caught up with a buddy who is in and around the NZ set up (not giving away to much sorry) Same guy who gave me this info a week before the 2nd South African test




We might have a new selector after this summer, Stead and Wells really don’t see eye to eye. Wells doesn’t think he can work with him. He believes the time is now to push through abit of a youth movement, believes there is plenty of talent around to do it. Stead on the other hand would rather see guys play 4-5 years of domestic cricket before getting there chance.

He believes Stead relies too much on world tournaments coming up (20/20 World Cup every second year, Champions Trophy, then World Cup) as a reason to not bring youth in, needing experience etc.

Certain players Wells believe NZ should move on from, brought up Sodhi being one of them. Not a test player, below average one day player, average 20/20 bowler who can’t bat or feild. Stead and Sodhi get on well and wouldn’t have a bar of it. Not the only player but just an example, Stead won’t even hear him out on things like this

Few other things, didn’t like the hype Rachin was getting after the World Cup. Him coming into the test team was Wells and Ronchi, Stead wanted to keep Nicholls on. In fact it was Ronchi who pushed for Young to go ahead of Nicholls the pecking order to.

Wells is a big fan of Max Chu, believes he’s the best gloveman in the country. Has him behind Blundell. Stead doesn’t, reckons he needs to do his time like Fletcher and Cleaver have. ie too young.

Wells believes the days of us playing 4 seamers at home is done. Wants the team to develop a spinning option.

Essentially though he just doesn’t believe he can work with him. To stuck in his ways, to close to many of the senior players. Isn’t the job he signed up for.
I think Bahnz or Steve had a mate who corroborated some of this.
 

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