Tom Halsey
International Coach
I think he has a fair point. Harmy has matured into a world class bowler, and India's attack is hardly world beating.Raj123 said:
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New PWC ratings
- Thread starter Swervy
- Start date
Swervy
International Captain
lets just clear something up...I am an Australia supporter....the problem with most England fans is that they dont realise how good their team actually is,and dont remember the success they have had in the last 3 years or so. If the improvement England have shown continues, I honestly beleive they will be the second best team in the world by summer 2005 and will really push Australia in the Ashes...try telling that to an England fan, and they will laugh at you.Raj123 said:
I never said India have never had pacers fit for the England team, please re-read what i actually said..what I am saying is that this England line up is better than anything India have had for a number of years
Swervy
International Captain
well i cant speak for the person who said this (was it LE), but that is his opinion, I would hazzard a guess that he has seen quite a few Indian teams in his time,and so his would be an opinion I would respect. I have seen the Indian team since 1980,and I would say that pretty much any England pace attack of the last 4 years is better than any Indian pace attack in those 24 years.....although I have always though Srinath was a class performer (better than Dev in my opinion)Raj123 said:
luckyeddie
Cricket Web Staff Member
Well, you are quite correct in that I go back a long time. I wasn't aware that I was saying anything controversial in nature, suggesting that India have not been over-blessed with quality seamers, so I've spent the last half hour refreshing my memory.Swervy said:
Here goes...
The first Indian seam attack I can recall is Surti and a.n.other (Kunderan, Subramanya - none of them were worth talking about) from 1967 - India's 'pacers' tended to have one purpose - take the shine off the new ball.
Moving on to 1971, we had Abid Ali and Solkar - marginally better but the purpose was still the same. Offies cannot grip a shiny ball.
A few years later, Madan Lal came into the side - and for the first time, India had seam options - whether to use a seamer with an average of 40 or one of 50.
So to the era of Kapil Dev - he was the first Indian seamer worth talking about, and his position in the side was never threatened. An average of 30 isn't bad - similar to Cork, Caddick, Gough - but of course he played unchallenged for 15 years. Hence 400+ wickets. He would NOT have got half that many in the England side, because he would have been vying for a place with the likes of Willis, Botham etc. If Kapil Dev had been Australian, he would not have got near the test team (Lillee, Thommo, Gilmour, Hogg etc etc)
Throughout Kapil Dev's career, the odd 'useful' seamer came along like Chetan Sharma, Prabhakar, Roger Binny - but the next 'good' one was Javagal Srinath (see reference to Cork, Gough, Caddick et al). There was one brief spell when Kapil Dev and Srinath played in the same side - a couple of seasons, perhaps, but Srinath was learning his craft while Kapil was in the twilight of his career.
And so, to more recent times. Or should I concentrate on the likes of Prasad?
My contention was simple - I would not swap England's current seam attack for any seam attack in India's history (save possibly the Kapil Dev/Srinath combination, if I can pick a spinner or two as well.
If I have insulted anyone or done an injustice to the history of Indian seam bowling in my lifetime, please let me know. Spending a half hour or so and checking the records, I see no reason to withdraw a single word.
Tom Halsey
International Coach
Agree, I don't see what Eddie said that was controversial.
Swervy
International Captain
PwC have produced a World XI based on the current test rankings...here is what they have to say:
April 1st has come and gone, but there will still be people shaking heads in disbelief that an England bowler might claim a place in a current World XI. But 22 wickets at 11 runs a piece have helped Steve Harmison to a remarkable third place in the latest PwC Ratings, level with Shoaib Akhtar. Depending on the balance of the bowling attack, these two would be fighting it out for the final spot in a PwC World XI.
The new look World XI, based on the highest rated players, including the top two openers and top all-rounder, would be as follows:
Hayden
Gibbs
Ponting
Tendulkar
Kallis
Dravid
Gilchrist
Pollock
Shoaib Akhtar
Harmison
Murali
On a turning wicket, Warne would replace Shoaib or Harmison. In fact, even if the wicket wasn't turning, some might adopt a policy of two spinners if it meant getting Warne into the side.
April 1st has come and gone, but there will still be people shaking heads in disbelief that an England bowler might claim a place in a current World XI. But 22 wickets at 11 runs a piece have helped Steve Harmison to a remarkable third place in the latest PwC Ratings, level with Shoaib Akhtar. Depending on the balance of the bowling attack, these two would be fighting it out for the final spot in a PwC World XI.
The new look World XI, based on the highest rated players, including the top two openers and top all-rounder, would be as follows:
Hayden
Gibbs
Ponting
Tendulkar
Kallis
Dravid
Gilchrist
Pollock
Shoaib Akhtar
Harmison
Murali
On a turning wicket, Warne would replace Shoaib or Harmison. In fact, even if the wicket wasn't turning, some might adopt a policy of two spinners if it meant getting Warne into the side.
Tom Halsey
International Coach
Yeh, I saw that too. Interesting, although I'd have Warney in there any day.
luckyeddie
Cricket Web Staff Member
Can't fool Kenny.Kenny said:
Tom Halsey can't remember the last time England had a really successful cricket team. Hell, even I'm struggling. What we've realised over the last year or two at least falls into the 'ok' category.
Such a shame the West Indies victory is already being devalued by many.
Now hang on Ed - that's not entirely fair - my comment was made largely in response to someone who suggested England have had a lot of success in the last three years.......surely two series losses in the time I mentioned, one heavy one, has to be considered as a valid counter argument?luckyeddie said:Can't fool Kenny.
Tom Halsey can't remember the last time England had a really successful cricket team. Hell, even I'm struggling. What we've realised over the last year or two at least falls into the 'ok' category.
Such a shame the West Indies victory is already being devalued by many.
In point of fact, is this not their first series win in test cricket for over 12 months, apart from Bangladesh?
Of course, English cricket fans could mount an argument that a 2-2 draw with SA virtually amounts to a victory!
i didnt know there were new set of rules for posting opinions. from now on before posting a comment on any player please ensure that your own team is strong in this area.. if its not you cant post a comment.
ok, so:
australia, sa - can comment any one
pakistan- on other pace bowlers only
nz- pace bowlers only
india - on other batsmen only
SL - spinners only
england - pace bowlers only(that too to a certain extent considering yours is not that good)
wi, zim, bangla- cant comment on any one.
i hope you realise how ridiculous your claim is:rolleyes:
luckyeddie
Cricket Web Staff Member
Raj - I went through all the Indian bowling from 1967 to the 1990's with great care, even going back and looking at the records of just about every test match played by India in that time - I deliberately ignored today's pace attack for obvious reasons (I don't want to jump on the 'knock Pathan' bandwagon).
I was very careful not to 'rubbish' the country's bowling history, what I did say was that 'I would not swap the current England seam attack for any (seam attack) in India's history'.
That's not to say that I wouldn't have one or the other (or even both) in the side, but I was talking about swapping the entire England attack for the entire Indian one (hence the point about me picking the spinners. I'll not be greedy. Chandra and Venkat will do for me).
Of course Kapil was a good bowler, of course Srinath was a good bowler, but when they played together one was starting and one was finishing. The England attack is 4, not 2, all are young, 3 of them have reasonable pace and bounce - and then there is James Anderson waiting in the wings.
I was very careful not to 'rubbish' the country's bowling history, what I did say was that 'I would not swap the current England seam attack for any (seam attack) in India's history'.
That's not to say that I wouldn't have one or the other (or even both) in the side, but I was talking about swapping the entire England attack for the entire Indian one (hence the point about me picking the spinners. I'll not be greedy. Chandra and Venkat will do for me).
Of course Kapil was a good bowler, of course Srinath was a good bowler, but when they played together one was starting and one was finishing. The England attack is 4, not 2, all are young, 3 of them have reasonable pace and bounce - and then there is James Anderson waiting in the wings.
