Natural talent vs hard work

[Dasa]

Afridi isn't THAT talented. He just slogs... I'm sure if Tendulkar or Lara went out with the same mindset as Afridi, they would score at the same rate he does but with far more consistency...

 

[Sir Redman]

I'm basically trying to say it's a combination of both...in a long-winded way. A bit of natural talent helps, but it'll only get you so far without hard work. (Mark Phillipoussis is a prime example of this in the tennis arena)

Yeah you're right, it is a combination of both. Natural talent can be wasted without hard work and hard work will not necessarily help if you have no talent

 

[Sir Redman]

There's not a person in the world born capable of handling 150km/h deliveries from the outset I'd imagine, it'd be something you'd become accustomed to handling through hard work and discipline.

A former coach of mine who was in the NZ academy says that all batsmen completely p*** themselves when facing an Akhtar or a Lee. He said that he thought only 2 batsmen in the world were different - Tendulkar and Lara.

 

[dinu23]

most talented player to play for SL as far as I know is Aravinda De Silva. Hardest worker has to be Hashan Thilekerathne. from the whole world most talented is Sachin, hardest worker Dion Ebrahim.

 

[Deja moo]

Murali,Warne and MacGill must be incredibly talented to be able to turn the ball so much.

 

[benchmark00]

Hardest worker in my opinion was Steve Waugh... Not hugely gifted but his mental side is what made him so good.

 

[Top_Cat]

Hardest worker in my opinion was Steve Waugh... Not hugely gifted but his mental side is what made him so good.

See this rankles with me; I think it's instructive that you don't think Steve Waugh wasn't so 'naturally gifted'. It's instructive that you may not have seen play him pre-1994. See before that point, he was looked upon as a potentially great allrounder with oodles of natural talent; he was a natural hitter of the ball with all the shots who could adapt his game to play the gaps if needed, he was a talented medium-pacer who could move the ball both ways off the seam and in the air and as a fielder, was fantastic on the ground and with the ball in the air.

Post-94 and Steve Waugh had gotten himself into trouble playing too aggressively and was beginning to build-up a few injuries from the amount of bowling he was doing. So he decided to restrict his natural game to leg-side flicks and to nailing the beejeezus out of anything the bowlers dared to pitch short outside off-stump, showing the maker's name to anything else. My point is that Steve Waugh's restrictions were a conscious decision and self-imposed, independent of natural talent, really. This gave rise to the perception he was a 'hard worker' which was true but in reality, Steve Waugh was a highly talented stroke player too. He just deliberately decided to cut out shots which had a higher probability of getting him out, putting the team's results ahead of his own ego. That took a lot of guts and certainly wouldn't be something I would be humble enough to do. I personally think he went a bit far but gee, it's difficult to argue with the results. Imagine how important a player such as Shahid Afridi would be if he did the same.

Even at the very end of his career, he could show the natural talent he still possessed despite retiring. I have him on video making 88 off 56 for NSW in the ING Cup final right after he retired and in it was every shot one could want; expansive lofted drives over mid-on, a couple of hooks and pulls (!), big drives off the front and back foot through the arc between point and mid-off, etc.

I think the perception of Steve Waugh as 'only' a hard worker is borne out of the restrictions he placed on himself AND the rise of brother Mark at around the same time (who may have been a little more naturally gifted but made it look like the gulf was a lot wider).

 

[BoyBrumby]

I guess it's a tough call to make. I mean, one could argue that, say, Mark Butcher looks far more talented than Mark Richardson. It's a subjective call, but when in full-flow Butch is very easy on the eye with the full repertoire of shots; Richardson, frankly, wasn't.

Yet Richardson averaged about 10 more than Butcher. Butch's average of a shade under 35 is a poor return for such a technically correct player, seemingly partly due to his schoolboy lapses when well set. Richardson, despite occasionally looking nigh on shotless, was far less prone to give his wicket away. However, couldn't one argue that the ability to concentrate for long periods of time is just as inherent (or natural!) as a batter's hand-eye co-ordination; perhaps Richardson was more naturally blessed than poor old Butch.

Another case that kinda bugs me is Hick. Obviously fabulous natural gifts & anyone who has ever seen him with his shirt off would have to say he works incredibly hard at his fitness too. Yet he averaged 31 & small change in tests.... Has to be mental, no?

 

[Link]

Yes I know players like Gilchrist are rediculously gifted. I just think that some players - Richardson for example - are extremely gifted with their ability to concentrate and work hard. Some people just do not have the natural ability to concentrate for long periods of time, whereas Richardson can do that naturally.

you think that Gilchrist or Lara or someone like that can go out and score a hundred and play like they do without concentrating?

 

[Sir Redman]

you think that Gilchrist or Lara or someone like that can go out and score a hundred and play like they do without concentrating?

I didn't say that - of course they concentrate.

It's just that some other players who don't have such gifted strokeplay seem to have far higher abilities to concentrate than most.

 

[deeps]

See this rankles with me; I think it's instructive that you don't think Steve Waugh wasn't so 'naturally gifted'. It's instructive that you may not have seen play him pre-1994.

couldn't have put that post better myself. i knew someone would say steve waugh as well

most talented is afridi

tendulkar and lara are very talented, but afridi is more imo.

dont know about the hardest worker

 

[Kweek]

yeah Talented..but motivational wise and even workingwise...Afridi is bad. Tendulkar is king of both and Lara been showing work more then he used to.

 

[kendall]

yeah Talented..but motivational wise and even workingwise...Afridi is bad. Tendulkar is king of both and Lara been showing work more then he used to.

Just because Afridi is a good atacking player and can hit the ball so wel doesnt make him more talented than say Tendulkar or Lara. Those two have so much more talent in my opinion

 

[Son Of Coco]

presuming the definition of hardest worker is someone whos not naturally gifted and therefore had to work more for his runs than someone who is, then hes certainly not.

but then again, you'd have to be presuming he can play every shot in the book due to natural talent and not because he worked hard in the first place...

 

[Son Of Coco]

A former coach of mine who was in the NZ academy says that all batsmen completely p*** themselves when facing an Akhtar or a Lee. He said that he thought only 2 batsmen in the world were different - Tendulkar and Lara.

yeah, I'm pretty sure that'd be the case too...I guess guys like Ponting etc that are willing to play pull shots against that sort of pace are more backing their ability to pick a certain ball than coping with the situation as a whole. As with everything, a very good ball bowled at that sort of speed is going to be pretty much unplayable no matter who you are.

 

[Son Of Coco]

See this rankles with me; I think it's instructive that you don't think Steve Waugh wasn't so 'naturally gifted'. It's instructive that you may not have seen play him pre-1994. See before that point, he was looked upon as a potentially great allrounder with oodles of natural talent; he was a natural hitter of the ball with all the shots who could adapt his game to play the gaps if needed, he was a talented medium-pacer who could move the ball both ways off the seam and in the air and as a fielder, was fantastic on the ground and with the ball in the air.

Post-94 and Steve Waugh had gotten himself into trouble playing too aggressively and was beginning to build-up a few injuries from the amount of bowling he was doing. So he decided to restrict his natural game to leg-side flicks and to nailing the beejeezus out of anything the bowlers dared to pitch short outside off-stump, showing the maker's name to anything else. My point is that Steve Waugh's restrictions were a conscious decision and self-imposed, independent of natural talent, really. This gave rise to the perception he was a 'hard worker' which was true but in reality, Steve Waugh was a highly talented stroke player too. He just deliberately decided to cut out shots which had a higher probability of getting him out, putting the team's results ahead of his own ego. That took a lot of guts and certainly wouldn't be something I would be humble enough to do. I personally think he went a bit far but gee, it's difficult to argue with the results. Imagine how important a player such as Shahid Afridi would be if he did the same.

Even at the very end of his career, he could show the natural talent he still possessed despite retiring. I have him on video making 88 off 56 for NSW in the ING Cup final right after he retired and in it was every shot one could want; expansive lofted drives over mid-on, a couple of hooks and pulls (!), big drives off the front and back foot through the arc between point and mid-off, etc.

I think the perception of Steve Waugh as 'only' a hard worker is borne out of the restrictions he placed on himself AND the rise of brother Mark at around the same time (who may have been a little more naturally gifted but made it look like the gulf was a lot wider).

Yeah, I agree. Waugh played the hook and pull shots freely when he first came on the scene, but cut them out as they were high risk early in his career. It would have been interesting to see if he adopted the same approach if he came into the Australian team now.

I also wonder if changing from an approach where you naturally went after the short ball to one where you left it was the reason behind him playing it so awkwardly sometimes as the adjustment meant you had less time to deal with it than someone who is a natural leaver of the short ball.

 

[Tom Halsey]

oh commone, how in the world someone can mention chris gayle as being talented and then not mention sachin tendulkar who is arguably the most talented player ever is beyond me.

'Sachin Tendulkar - Most overrated player EVER!!!'

Either you forgot you think he's overrated, or you don't think he made the most of his talent.

 

[chekmeout]

Most naturally talented - Sehwag. Haven't seen anyone with such brilliant superhuman hand-eye coordination. And hand-eye coordination is totally a god-gifted virtue.

 

[Richard]

Natural talent - far too uptight word - the ability to work hard IS a natural talent, otherwise everyone would be equal. Some people have the stamina to go at something over and over and over again - some people don't.
Hardest-working international cricketer with success? Who knows. All sorts of candidates who have little or nothing to separate them: Dwayne Bravo, Gary Kirsten, Nasser Hussain (not to say FOR A SECOND that he didn't have an abundance of what people so often call "natural ability" and anyone who saw him bat in the mid-90s could not possibly think otherwise), Jacques Kallis, Graham Gooch, just a few names that happened to spring into my mind in these last couple of minutes.

 

[honestbharani]

Lara...... I haven't seen anyone not pick up a bat for like 6 months and then come in and score 116 in a big WC match against the host side with a decent bowling attack....