nathan bracken was a better odi bowler than brett lee

[DriveClub]

Can't think of a more versatile odi batsman than Bevan. Seen him bat in most batting positions from 3-7

 

[TheJediBrah]

Can't think of a more versatile odi batsman than Bevan. Seen him bat in most batting positions from 3-7

I would say he lacked the power hitting of later players like Hussey, and pretty much any decent batsman these days can be a genuine power hitter. You could argue that was a function of the time he played more than anything though, and that if he came along 10 years later he would likely have developed a power hitting game to match almost anyone.

 

[DriveClub]

I would say he lacked the power hitting of later players like Hussey, and pretty much any decent batsman these days can be a genuine power hitter. You could argue that was a function of the time he played more than anything though, and that if he came along 10 years later he would likely have developed a power hitting game to match almost anyone.

Obviously you can't compare across eras, I would back any great player of a certain era to be a great in another era as they would have adapted their game. Playing style is a product of their time mostly. Remember bevan taking apart a Asia xi bowling attack chasing 320. Admittedly it was kind of an exhibition match but it was phenomenal hitting.

 

[DriveClub]

Just found out Steve Waugh only has 3 hundreds in 325 odis wtf and one of those was in a 99 wc semi again sa. Saffers really get all the bad luck in world cups

 

[Flem274*]

odi cricket is a good example of why the transplantation of players into different eras that was so popular on this forum in the 00s was stupid.

bevan played in the way best suited to keeping his job in 1999. if he was around today he might approach batting with a similar core philosophy and a familiar method but it would be adjusted to the norms of today, and he would find the boundary. root and kane are nudgers and strokers at heart who have developed their meme game to suit this era. i can see bevan being in the same mold.

 

[mr_mister]

Just found out Steve Waugh only has 3 hundreds in 325 odis wtf and one of those was in a 99 wc semi again sa. Saffers really get all the bad luck in world cups

he played nearly 100 of his games at 6-7(remember he was pretty much a fully fledged all-rounder til the mid 90s) and even when he at his main position of 5 he often came in with not enough time to get a 100. It's generally only the top 4 who get regular opportunities to get them

his average from 1996 to the end of his career(where all 3 of his tons were scored as well as his 2 best WC batting performances) was around 36, a good chunk higher than his career average of 32 - I'm assuming he did a lot of throwing away his wicket in the 80s and early 90s with the bat. I remember Ian Healy saying something like 'if I knew ODI batting averages mattered I wouldn't have thrown away my wicket so many times' when Waugh told him he was being dropped from the ODI side for Gilchrist due to Gilchrist being the better bat.

it seems ODI stats were seen very differently in the early stages of the format. We still dont give a crap about t20 averages but maybe one day they'l be important

 

[Red]

Except for all the times when he didn't even bowl at all, not even as a 6th bowler that is.

If a normal team doesn't regularly use someone as a bowler, then how does he become a legitimate option at a level above that?

He averaged over 6 overs per innings. How is that not regularly using someone?

FWIW, here's a list of the matches he didn't bowl in:

ODI 1485: Aust bowled SL out in 37 overs (not required)
ODI 1563: Aust did not bowl (wash out)
ODI 1565: McG, Warne, Lee, Lee bowled out NZ in 30 overs (not required to bowl)
ODI 1677: Lee, Fleming, Harvey, Warne bowl out WI in 35 overs (not required to bowl)
ODI 1938: Clarke bowls 7 overs
ODI 1940 and 41: Aust play 2 spinners (and three quicks)
ODI 1970: Aust bowl out Namibia in 14 overs
ODI 1990: Lehmann bowls 6 overs and Harvey in the team
ODI 1991 : Aust bowl SL out in 38 overs
ODI 2016: Hauritz and Hogg play along with 3 quicks
ODI 2019: Harvey is selected as 5th bowler
ODI 2053: Aust bowl NZ out in 33 overs
ODI 2159: Washed out
ODI 2172: Aust bowl USA out in 24 overs
ODI 2209 : Lehmann bowls 7
ODI 2232: Hopes is selected as 5th bowler
ODI 2256: Eng only face 6 overs before wash out
ODI 2284: ICC World XI bowled out in 27 overs
ODI 2366: Cullen and Hogg selected along with 3 quicks
ODI 2367: Ditto
ODI 2473: Clarke and White share 10 overs
ODI 2577: NZ bowled out in 25 overs
ODI 2580: Watson selected as 5th bowler
ODI 2621: Washed out
ODI 2623: Clarke bowls 9 overs
ODI 2625 - end of Symonds career (approx 12 matched where Symonds doesn't bowl): Hopes selected as 5th bowler and Symonds used as a batsman only.

 

[Red]

He has an irrational dislike for Bevan because in a couple of ODIs Bevan batted too slowly and got out.

Not really. I have a logical dislike for his myth, which has been created around his really high average combined with a couple of times he batted us to a memorable win.

His average can be explained simply but his not outs. His actual output (runs per innings batted) is basically the same as Clarke & Hussey. Little bit less than Ponting & Dhoni, in fact.

I'm not saying he was bad, by any means. He was a good ODI batsman. But the myth around him is huge. And he belongs nowhere near the GOAT conversations, and it'd be laughable having him in a world ODI team. Australia maybe but Hussey does the same role better.

 

[Kirkut]

I would say he lacked the power hitting of later players like Hussey, and pretty much any decent batsman these days can be a genuine power hitter. You could argue that was a function of the time he played more than anything though, and that if he came along 10 years later he would likely have developed a power hitting game to match almost anyone.

Power hitting was a rare thing at that time, right? Except for Afridi most batsmen would have had to time the ball very well for hitting a six instead of raw power.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Just found out Steve Waugh only has 3 hundreds in 325 odis wtf and one of those was in a 99 wc semi again sa. Saffers really get all the bad luck in world cups

It was super 6, not the semi, but yes Saffas did get the worst of it. One of his other 100s was also against them in Melbourne, I was there.

Steve wasn't a particularly special ODI batsman but tbf to him he very rarely batted above 5 and early in his career was lower in the order and effectively playing as an all-rounder. Not surprised he doesn't have a huge tally of 100s.

 

[Bolo.]

Power hitting was a rare thing at that time, right? Except for Afridi most batsmen would have had to time the ball very well for hitting a six instead of raw power.

Power hitting wasn't the same as today, but it wasnt an unknown. Plenty of players could smash the ball. Lots of teams were opening with at least one player who was basically a pinch hitter. Plenty of the lower order were stand and deliver type bats. Aus had Gilchrist and Lee. RSA had Gibbs, Boucher, Klusenar and Pollock. Etc.

The idea that Bevan would have adapted to be one of the best power hitters in the modern era when he was streets behind plenty of his own era is very optimistic. I reckon he would be tearing it up as a number 4 though.

 

[stephen]

90s Australian ODI cricket was the Waugh brothers and Bevan the rest of our batting wasn't great tbh. The generation that came after them was already on a par (as evidenced by the Australia A side of the time) and had yet to hit their peaks or even play international cricket (for some of them).

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah he will be what KW and Root are, if he had the power around him in the batting line up.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Power hitting wasn't the same as today, but it wasnt an unknown. Plenty of players could smash the ball. Lots of teams were opening with at least one player who was basically a pinch hitter. Plenty of the lower order were stand and deliver type bats. Aus had Gilchrist and Lee. RSA had Gibbs, Boucher, Klusenar and Pollock. Etc.

The idea that Bevan would have adapted to be one of the best power hitters in the modern era when he was streets behind plenty of his own era is very optimistic. I reckon he would be tearing it up as a number 4 though.

If we're calling Boucher a power-hitter then half the players of the time probably fit the bill. Symonds was the genuine "power-hitter" Aus kept picking even before he became good in 2003.

 

[mr_mister]

90s Australian ODI cricket was the Waugh brothers and Bevan the rest of our batting wasn't great tbh. The generation that came after them was already on a par (as evidenced by the Australia A side of the time) and had yet to hit their peaks or even play international cricket (for some of them).

definitely not giving enough credit to Ponting IMO. Was arguably already worthy of our ATG side by the end of the 90s as far as I'm concerned. Or if you're including him in the generation after I feel that's disagreeable as he's Bevan's generation pretty much.

*Averaged nearly 41 in the 1990s from 91 appearances, more than anyone bar Bevan and Jones

*He already had the joint 4th most tons ever scored by an Aussie ODI batsman at the conclusion of the decade with 5 (Junior, Swampy and Jones had more)

*Was the youngest ever player to score a WC century at 21 in '96(against Ambrose/Walsh/Bishop no less). He scored the second most runs for us in this cup behind Mark Waugh

*Held the joint highest ever Australian individual ODI score for a brief time with 145 before Gilly passed it in '99

*Scored the most runs of anyone on all 3 sides in the '97/98 Tri series with 462 against SA and NZ but wasn't given the Man of the series award for some reason, which went to Kirsten who played 2 more matches and averaged 41 to Ponting's 57. Ponting did get MOM in the decisive 3rd final though with his match winning 76. Demonstrated in this series he was already our best fielder too, with lots of memorable run outs

*And his '99 WC performance flies under the radar a bit. In this book I have detailing the history of World cups it was said that he consistently played a lot of 'brief but dazzling innings'. Made a lot of useful if not game changing contributions and despite the 69 against SA in the super 6 game being the only time he passed 50, he did get 47 twice. He hit 354 runs, only slightly behind Junior and Tugga with 375 and 398 respectively. His lowest score of the entire cup from 10 digs was 18*





So yeah! Don't mean to jump down your throat but it's often talked about how much Ponting wasn't there yet/was hot and cold during the '90s but I feel this only counts for tests. In ODIs I feel he definitely was there and one our best players, worthy of our ATG XI discussion

 

[Bolo.]

If we're calling Boucher a power-hitter then half the players of the time probably fit the bill. Symonds was the genuine "power-hitter" Aus kept picking even before he became good in 2003.

Maybe Boucher shouldnt be classed as a power hitter because he did rotate the strike a lot. But the pretty significant delta between his SR and Bevans is due to his greater ability to hit boundaries.

I am excluding Symonds because I dont think there was enough overlap to be considered of the same era. Include him if you like, as well as however many players you consider comparable to Boucher. The more there are, the more clear my point is- Bevan was not even a good power hitter by the standards of his own era, so reckoning he would be a great one now days is a huge assumption.

 

[stephen]

Yeah, I was more referring to the early and mid 90s. By the time of the 99 WC, Australia had a petty dang good side with Gilchrist up top. I was thinking more Taylor/Healy era.

 

[mr_mister]

ah okay yeah my bad. just wanted any excuse to big up Ponting in his early days

 

[trundler]

Bracken was basically a glorified Mustafizur

 

[vcs]

Australia's '99 side was solid but SA's was probably the better team on paper. Tom Moody, Lehmann and Reiffel were decent but not greats in that format, Ponting was not yet close to his peak. Fortunately they finished the job and smashed Pakistan after fluking their way past SA.