Myths propogated by media and lapped up by fans.

[SJS]

he did bowl too flat on occassions, esp. in his first spell. But I am talking about his second spell, when both Yuvraj and Sehwag were flighting it and bowling it just short of good length and he was bowling flat and overpitching it.

Firstly, I am not specifically talking of the finals. I did not see India bowling and dont know what he bowled. i am talking of how he has been bowling in ODI's in general.

As regards what Bhajji bowled, I have already said, i didnt see what he bowled in that game and wasnt talking of it specifically. I was talking of his bowling over the last 12 months.

Thanks for your attention. Have a good day.

 

[honestbharani]

No, I know that u didn't see it. I was just trying to inform you of what he was bowling. That is all.

 

[Pratters]

how in the world are any of those players anywhere near as good as gayle as all rounders?

The batting bowling combination as a whole.

 

[marc71178]

Only 1 of them comes close to him with the bat, and on current form, only about 1 with the ball.

 

[Pratters]

Gayle is highly over rated by you to bracket him as the 2nd best all rounder in the world.

 

[marc71178]

Me and the ICC likewise then

I mean number 3 with the bat and In ODi's he is as good as anyone, and certainly a much better option than any of the one's you've named.

 

[Pratters]

Me and the ICC likewise then

I mean number 3 with the bat and In ODi's he is as good as anyone, and certainly a much better option than any of the one's you've named.

Okay let me shred the threads off this even though I did not want to:

Your claim: Gayle is second best all rounder in the world.

Stats:
Bat Bowl
Gayle 39 31
Kallis 45 32
Cairns 29 32 (much more overs per match and better strike rate as batsman than Gayle)
Jayasuriya 32 36
Razzaq 27 29
Afridi 24 37

One more aspect to be considered is the overs per match a bowler bowls (which shows his utility in the team) and the strike rate while batting, things averages tend to ignore. Aspects which are very crucial in determining who is a good all rounder for odis which I think you are ignoring.

 

[marc71178]

All of which proves absolutely nothing to help you out.

The only person whose all round figures are even close are Kallis and his bowling is rapidly decreasing whereas Gayle's isn't.

Cairns' "much more overs per match" is actually an average of 5 balls more (!)
Better strike rate, but an average of 10 less.

Want to try anything else (recent form maybe - think Gayle's form is actually better than career)

 

[marc71178]

One more aspect to be considered is the overs per match a bowler bowls (which shows his utility in the team)

Gayle regularly bowls his full 10 - on average there's about an over difference covering all 6 named.

and the strike rate while batting, things averages tend to ignore.

Gayle's SR of 79 is hardly sluggish, and his average more than compensates for that.

Afridi 108, Kallis 71, Cairns 84, Razzaq 80, Jayasuriya 89.

So the only one who's average is higher scores a lot slower - thus by your Cairns argument he's worse as well.

 

[Pratters]

All of which proves absolutely nothing to help you out.

What I would be interested in would be how you can prove Gayle is the second best all rounder, your claim!

 

[Pratters]

Gayle regularly bowls his full 10

Then how would you explain the fact that he has so few overs per match!

Gayle's SR of 79 is hardly sluggish, and his average more than compensates for that.

Afridi 108, Kallis 71, Cairns 84, Razzaq 80, Jayasuriya 89.

Jayasuriya with a strike rate as high with a huge advantage over Gayle and an average of 32 (compared to Gayle's higher 39) would be far more useful easily as far as I am concerned if you would just like to base it on stats.

 

[marc71178]

Then how would you explain the fact that he has so few overs per match!

So few yet within about an over of everyone you named

Jayasuriya with a strike rate as high with a huge advantage over Gayle and an average of 32 (compared to Gayle's higher 39) would be far more useful easily as far as I am concerned if you would just like to base it on stats.

A strike rate of about 8 more (about 10%) isn't that big a deal.

It certainly doesn't compensate for an average of 7 more (over 20%)

 

[C_C]

A strike rate of about 8 more (about 10%) isn't that big a deal.

It certainly doesn't compensate for an average of 7 more (over 20%)

Jayasurya averages 35 with the bat while opening....and in ODI cricket, strike rate is VERY important- the central objective is to score more runs in the 50 overs than the opposition scored. As such, a guy with 30 ave but 90 strike rate is far more valuable than a guy with 50 average and 50 strike rate.
I would go with Jayasurya over Gayle at this point but its rather close.

 

[SJS]

Whenever the debate about allrounders in the modern context arises, I am amazed at how easily we tend to forget that if there is one thing that has totally different meaning in the two versions of the game, it is how we define an all rounder and the attributes required to be classified as one.

I think those who are debating here about whether or not Gayle is an all rounder, a world class all rounder, the worlds second best all rounder etc could both be right (or wrong) depending upon the context.

Gayle is an allrounder, and a very good one at that, in one version of the game and he will not be remembered as an allrounder, unless he does something dramatic in the years to come in the other version.

Just my two bits worth. Ignore it please

 

[deeps]

let's not dwell in the past... Kallis' bowling average is made to look alot better than it is atm, because of his brilliance in the past... he is now not even close to the mark

cairns' figures are aslo making him look good

afridi's figures are worse than they recently have been

shoaib malik is another that should be considered...i do believe in a year or two, he will be number 1

 

[deeps]

also think murali kartik is a huge talent, and should be in the side infront of harbajan

 

[marc71178]

As such, a guy with 30 ave but 90 strike rate is far more valuable than a guy with 50 average and 50 strike rate.

I would agree there because there's a huge discrepancy in S/R, but in the case we're discussing it isn't actually a big difference.

 

[Pratters]

So ..

You keep trying to refute my point yet do not give your justification on our belief regardin Gayle despite me specifically asking for it.

 

[marc71178]

I give you the stuff, you ignore it because it doens't suit your argument.

 

[Pratters]

I give you the stuff

Not really. From next time kindly be specific or dont make off hand statements at all. Can you really prove Gayle is the second best all rounder in the world.