Most underrated and overrated players in the world?

[tooextracool]

No, I just don't take it as simply as that.

yes you do. you've dismissed every seamer friendly wicket, you've dismissed every tour to india, and you've dismissed the tour to pakistan. you've claimed that the series against NZ was an anomaly,as was the series against england. what does that leave?

 

[Richard]

i dnt believe richard! he MUST b kidding! if mcgrath is "lucky" as you say, and bowls poorly and yet ends up with good figures... wouldnt the law of averages state that after a certain amount of games, his poor bowling will show up on the stats? i think that over 100 test, of which ALOT of them would have been flat tracks, his bowling would have taken a battering!?

actually, we'll take a look at yesterday's ODI vs new zealand

the most economical bowler besides mcgrath is brett lee,and he went at 4.55 an over... the most economical new zealand bowler was darry tuffey who went at 5.8 an over.

the bowler with the most wickets is scott styris with 4 wickets (10 runs a wicket) and mr glen mcgrath who also took 4 wickets but only conceeded 16 runs in his 19.4 overs, which is a touch under 1.6 an over. so his wickets cost ONE RUN....

now please tell me that on this obviously flat track where bowlers are being punished at 4 and 5 an over, how mcgrath got away with 1.6?

What a wonderful idea to use a ODI - I've mentioned ODIs where? I'm talking about TEST-matches.

for someone who rates damian fleming, dion nash, javagal srinath, geoff allot as great bowlers of their time, i fail to realise how mcgrath isnt' seen as above them by a country mile?

He's not enormously better than them, no, because averages aren't the be-all-and-end-all. Ain't like I've ever said anything vaguely resembling "Geoff Allott was an all-time great in Tests" either.

now batsman may play stupid shots against mcgrath, but it's because mcgrath MAKES them play stupid shots... If you are a batsman and the ball keeps going somewhere where it's awkward to play front or back, and just oustide off stump you will eventually get sick of leaving and blocking. Then you will try and do something to break the shackles and that' when mcgrath strikes. he slowly and steadily sets you up and then you take the bait and voila, another wicket for mr mcgrath!

No-one can force that attitude upon batsmen.
Sometimes they actually get it right.
And he doesn't deserve any credit for them getting it wrong.

 

[Richard]

That isn't the point though...

Whether it is or not, the fact remains that there's no evidence - in fact, there's considerable evidence to the contrary, as you'll see on the "greatest bowlers of all-time" thread.

 

[Richard]

yes you do. you've dismissed every seamer friendly wicket, you've dismissed every tour to india, and you've dismissed the tour to pakistan. you've claimed that the series against NZ was an anomaly,as was the series against england. what does that leave?

I've claimed that almost every time I've watched McGrath on a wicket that hasn't offered seam or uneven bounce, if he's taken wickets, he's taken them through poor strokes.
I've not claimed I've ever watched McGrath before 2001, and I've admitted I've not watched every Test since.
See?

 

[Richard]

you seriously have some of the weirdest opinions for everything that i've ever seen on CW.


and dont say that you've been here for ever and that i wldnt have read all your posts

by artificially increasing your post count by replying to each and every tiny little comment by posting a new reply inflates your post count and doesn't mean anything. and yes, you may have been here for ages longer than me, but i've been here for well and truly long enough to see all the weird opinions you have


but dont mind me, and dont stop! it provides all of us here at CW a good laugh, sorta like amits, but more well behaved

If you really have to resort to stupid comments like "artificially increasing your post-count" and acting like I'm trying to post as much as possible, you've run-out of ideas.
Post-counts are a bit of harmless fun, nothing else, and I've never, ever used my post-count to claim anything about myself.

 

[tooextracool]

Hopefully he might correct the disparity in India. And I reckon he might have done in Australia had he not missed the two Tests that gave the batsmen a decent chance. No, he's maybe not quite as good as some think, but he's nothing like as overrated as Youhana, who's nothing more than an average Test-match batsman..

yes and you of all people know that i dont rate youhanna. for me inzamam is simply a good batsman, hes never come close to great.

Why? It sure can't be because of his fantastic ODI record (even if you only take it from after the 9-75-0(3nb) spell it's still only 28.54 at 4.54-an-over), and it certainly can't be because of his Test-bowling.
About the only thing I can think of about Hogg that's underrated is his batting, and that's only slightly.

because when the conditions suit him hes an extremely capable, that record is a lot better than it seems given the number of flat tracks hes played on. i dont claim hes a great bowler, but hes certainly better than any other spinner in australia in ODIs.

 

[tooextracool]

I've claimed that almost every time I've watched McGrath on a wicket that hasn't offered seam or uneven bounce, if he's taken wickets, he's taken them through poor strokes.
I've not claimed I've ever watched McGrath before 2001, and I've admitted I've not watched every Test since.
See?

yes you've only conveniently watched the ones that hes been poor in, which is those 3 series that ive already mentioned. the 1-2 others that you have watched you've dismissed as anomalies.

 

[tooextracool]

Despite the fact I've never called him an all-time great.

"'90s - one of a legion of great bowlers (along with Donald, Pollock, his parter Wasim, Ambrose, Walsh, Vaas, McGrath, Fleming, Streak, Srinath, Allott, Nash and, Cairns [the last three who would all IMO have been better than they turned-out but for injury])"

if ayone could tell me that allott was anything other than a rubbish bowler, who peaked in one series of his entire career, id be surprised.

 

[Richard]

yes you've only conveniently watched the ones that hes been poor in, which is those 3 series that ive already mentioned. the 1-2 others that you have watched you've dismissed as anomalies.

No, I haven't dismissed anything or other as anomialies, I've simply said that, in any matches (never mentioned series, you're the one who's always tried to bring them into it) I've watched when the pitch hasn't offered seam or uneven bounce, McGrath has either not taken wickets or only taken them through poor strokes.

 

[Richard]

"'90s - one of a legion of great bowlers (along with Donald, Pollock, his parter Wasim, Ambrose, Walsh, Vaas, McGrath, Fleming, Streak, Srinath, Allott, Nash and, Cairns [the last three who would all IMO have been better than they turned-out but for injury])"

if ayone could tell me that allott was anything other than a rubbish bowler, who peaked in one series of his entire career, id be surprised.

Yet that series formed quite a large part of his career.
Yep, the top comment wasn't phrased fantastically - but any fool could guess that I'm not calling Allott an all-time great.

 

[tooextracool]

No, I haven't dismissed anything or other as anomialies, I've simply said that, in any matches (never mentioned series, you're the one who's always tried to bring them into it) I've watched when the pitch hasn't offered seam or uneven bounce, McGrath has either not taken wickets or only taken them through poor strokes.

you said that the game against NZ in the recent series was an exception
"Adelaide is an extraordinary exception to the last 3 years - I've never seen McGrath bowl that well on that type of pitch, and I've seen most of his Test-wickets in the last 3 years."

 

[Richard]

yes and you of all people know that i dont rate youhanna. for me inzamam is simply a good batsman, hes never come close to great.

Yes, I know you don't rate Youhana, but it seemed you were saying Inzamam-Ul-Haq is overrated to the same degree as him - which would not be true.
IMO Inzamam is a very good batsman, just not quite as good as some think. He can certainly play both seam\swing and spin extremely competantly.

because when the conditions suit him hes an extremely capable, that record is a lot better than it seems given the number of flat tracks hes played on. i dont claim hes a great bowler, but hes certainly better than any other spinner in australia in ODIs.

Wow, what an achievement! He's better than Nathan Hauritz! (And Stuart MacGill, but he hasn't played for 5 years).

 

[tooextracool]

Yet that series formed quite a large part of his career.

yes less than 1/3 of it. and even in that series he was hammered by quality teams, especially when he came on flat wickets.

Yep, the top comment wasn't phrased fantastically - but any fool could guess that I'm not calling Allott an all-time great.

the only fool who could tell that you werent calling allott an all-time great was you. and i wouldnt be surprised if it was one of those stupid comments you make without thinking, and then instead of admitting that it was a hasty comment,you actually go on to try and back it up.

 

[Richard]

you said that the game against NZ in the recent series was an exception
"Adelaide is an extraordinary exception to the last 3 years - I've never seen McGrath bowl that well on that type of pitch, and I've seen most of his Test-wickets in the last 3 years."

An exception to the other 20 matches or so I've seen.

 

[tooextracool]

Yes, I know you don't rate Youhana, but it seemed you were saying Inzamam-Ul-Haq is overrated to the same degree as him - which would not be true.).

then you need to learn to read.

Wow, what an achievement! He's better than Nathan Hauritz! (And Stuart MacGill, but he hasn't played for 5 years).

your point is? i havent said that hogg is a better bowler than every australian spin bowler to play in the last 2 years. ive said that hes the best spin bowler in australia ATM and that includes macgill and every random spin bowler there is in australia(which is certainly more than hauritz)

 

[tooextracool]

An exception to the other 20 matches or so I've seen.

a whole 1/5 of his career! wow you know so much about mcgrath!
especiallly since that 1/5 consisted of the worst phase of his career, and the series in england which was in seamer friendly conditions.

 

[Richard]

yes less than 1/3 of it. and even in that series he was hammered by quality teams, especially when he came on flat wickets.

In his career of any worth (when he came back in 2000 he was clearly a nothing bowler and had been destroyed by injury) he played 22 games, 9 of which were WC99; that's 41% rounded-up.
In WC99, meanwhile, he was hammered only by Pakistan - even then the 2nd only amounted to 4.56-an-over. Yes, Bangladesh and Scotland exaggerated it a bit, but they merely served to make a good record even better.

the only fool who could tell that you werent calling allott an all-time great was you. and i wouldnt be surprised if it was one of those stupid comments you make without thinking, and then instead of admitting that it was a hasty comment,you actually go on to try and back it up.

No, it was something where I didn't say exactly what I meant quite as well as I could have. And no, I don't like it when people try to use that sort of thing against me.

 

[Richard]

then you need to learn to read.

Or maybe you need to learn to feudalise.

your point is? i havent said that hogg is a better bowler than every australian spin bowler to play in the last 2 years. ive said that hes the best spin bowler in australia ATM and that includes macgill and every random spin bowler there is in australia(which is certainly more than hauritz)

And there are so many brilliant spinners in Australia ATM who're available for ODIs aren't there?

 

[Richard]

a whole 1/5 of his career! wow you know so much about mcgrath!
especiallly since that 1/5 consisted of the worst phase of his career, and the series in england which was in seamer friendly conditions.

Yes, and he exploited the seam-friendly conditions very well, as per usual.
I've never said I know much about McGrath pre-2001, but I do know quite a bit about him post-2001.

 

[tooextracool]

Or maybe you need to learn to feudalise.

or maybe you should get some grey matter?

And there are so many brilliant spinners in Australia ATM who're available for ODIs aren't there?

and ive claimed that hogg is brilliant where?