Mohammed Amir cleared to return with immediate effect

[CricAddict]

Firstly I think we are approaching this in different ways. While it definitely isn't the fault of the player who is picked due to nepotism/quotas/the selectors fancying their mum, I will support a player walkout because it's a protest against the selectors and not the player in question. It's a protest against unfair selection practices, which does directly affect the cricketer's own livelihoods, and as such is a fair reason for them to act out.

Picking Amir doesn't affect the cricketers own livelihoods since it is a selection based on merit. The only way it negatively affects them is if they feel that Amir is still a cheat, and will cost them games in exchange for cash. But this thought is problematic. Hafeez and Azhar may believe that he is still a cheat, but they cannot say that for sure. While his history isn't a 100% indicator that he will never fix again, it also doesn't mean that he will. And as far as I am aware of, the PCB and selectors don't gain by picking a player who will be throwing games for money. It's possible they might, and that's something worth looking in to, but as far as I am aware their is no obvious conflict of interest at the moment. Unlike with nepotism/quotas, I struggle to see how the selectors will gain from Amir continuing to fix games, unless one of them has a bookie for a nephew. Without any reason for the selectors wanting a fixer in the side, they seemingly have faith in Amir to play clean and bowl for victory and not money. If they didn't, he wouldn't be in the side.

Now, fair enough Azhar and Hafeez will be privy to a lot more information with regards to Amir and his dealing than me (or anyone else here). It is also possible the selectors haven't done their due diligence and are just so excited by the appeal of Amir that they rushed him back in. It is also possible that they have, and figure the pros of having Amir in the side (more spectators, probably more victories) outweighs the cons (his occasional dabbles in spot-fixing for some cash), and that Hafeez and Azhar are aware of this and don't want to play alongside Amir.

But I will refrain from such judgements and theories until we actually know something for sure. And all we know for sure is that Amir is a ****, but has been cleared to play and is bowling well.

Secondly, when talking about 'Professional Cricketers taking a moral stance when deciding on whom they play alongside with", my qualms with praising this basically boils down moral relativism. What morals are worth standing for and what arent? Sure right now Hafeez and Azhar get a ton of support for refusing to play alongside a fixer. What if they refuse to play alongside a bowler who was found guilty of chucking? A ball tamperer? A player who bailed on the national side to play T20s? Or something non-cricket related like playing alongside a racist or homophobe? Or an ex-con? Or a person who supports a different political party? What if they don't want to play with a guy because he pours his milk in before his cereal and that offends their sensitivities?

I'm not a fan of this grey area. While I get what you're saying about not suppressing a player's will to act on their values, I do not think we should be celebrating or encouraging it.

I agree with harsh basically. If Azhar and Hafeez want to walk out, they can. But when they, or any cricketer, issues such an ultimatum they should not be on the winning end of it. If Azhar and Hafeez walk out, the PCB should not say "all right, hang on, stay, we will drop Amir". The message should be that "You have decided to walk out, and we accept that. But we are going to continue on without you".

*****, I am following up this conversation with interest but it will be easier for me if you can converse in 2-3 lines instead of essays. No offence meant.

 

[cnerd123]

Trust me, if I could summarise my thoughts in just 2-3 lines then I would.

 

[weldone]

Azhar walking out is a blow, given he's ODI captain and probable future test captain. This means he won't select Amir in the playing XI (unless Waqar and Mushtaq have strong opposing views) even if the selectors have him in squad of 14/15/16.

 

[mr_mister]

does Azhar get final say on those matters?

 

[marc71178]

i was referring directly to marc's comment

i went into a bit more detail than was necessary

No, you just posted a lot of bollocks which isn't at all relevant to what the cheating scum actually did.

 

[mr_mister]

lol. history is going to make your side of this argument look dumb

its christmas and you still cant forgive a kid for his mistake 5 years ago

 

[harsh.ag]

Looking forward to future posts starting with "Once upon scum..."

 

[Jono]

Lol what? Does he understand what the ****ing word even means? **** him. Still haven't changed my stance on his return. **** should never be allowed to play again. Azhar was asked to **** off and never come back as were Jadeja and Cronje 15 years ago. Really doesn't help them improve their 'bunch of cheats' image, does it?

Lol azhar and jadeja. Horrendous example from you. Have been honoured after the fact for sole weird reason.

Edit: I see you've later acknowledged India aren't much bigger at dealing with cheats.

 

[Jono]

I think amir should have been banned for life, but he wasn't. azhar and hafeez should be doing their ****ing job that they are paid to do.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Suppressing a cricketer's right to have a moral stance towards a teammate = dangerous road
Suppressing a cricketer's right to act on a moral stance towards a teammate = not a dangerous road if the cricketer understands the repercussions of said actions

Well said the Peoples Front of Judea.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I think amir should have been banned for life, but he wasn't. azhar and hafeez should be doing their ****ing job that they are paid to do.

Nah, blame the PCB. When something as unprecedented and controversial as a fixer coming back to train with the National team happens, the board/coach/someone in power has to take the initiative and have a sit down conversation with Amir and the players. Obviously that hasn't happened. Or if it has happened, it wasn't done properly since Hafeez and Ali still have massive reservations. The PCB has to have seen such reactions coming and having one of the pillars of their batting lineup and future captain protest like this is really bad. PCB suck. Paige's heel turn was fine but they've botched it badly since then.

 

[cnerd123]

Nah, blame the PCB. When something as unprecedented and controversial as a fixer coming back to train with the National team happens, the board/coach/someone in power has to take the initiative and have a sit down conversation with Amir and the players. Obviously that hasn't happened. Or if it has happened, it wasn't done properly since Hafeez and Ali still have massive reservations.

Didn't realize Hafeez and Azhar were still children who need persuading and coddling in order to play nice with Amir.

Anyone with the slightest passing interest in cricket was well aware that Amir was back and eligible for selection. He has been bowling well ever since his return, and Pakistan need another quick bowler. This selection was hardly surprising, so Hafeez and Azhar both had plenty of time to make peace with it. As it stands, they clearly haven't. And that's fine. They can walk off and refuse to play. I won't be sympathetic of that decision or be praising them for their 'moral integrity' or whatever for doing so. It's their decisions and their decision alone. Any blame on the PCB/coaches/selectors is misguided IMO.

Will be interesting to see how the PCB reacts.

 

[mr_mister]

Nah, blame the PCB. When something as unprecedented and controversial as a fixer coming back to train with the National team happens, the board/coach/someone in power has to take the initiative and have a sit down conversation with Amir and the players. Obviously that hasn't happened. Or if it has happened, it wasn't done properly since Hafeez and Ali still have massive reservations. The PCB has to have seen such reactions coming and having one of the pillars of their batting lineup and future captain protest like this is really bad. PCB suck. Paige's heel turn was fine but they've botched it badly since then.

if we're gonna bring up WWE... I put this akin to Austin taking his ball home when he threw a tanty over Lesnar back in the day



so yeah Azhar, toughen up baby

 

[OverratedSanity]

Lol@ mister and *****. You can disagree with Hafeez and Ali's stance but to call them immature babies is just ridiculous. This is not a trivial matter over which they're protesting.

 

[mr_mister]

i'm just at the end of my tether regarding this anti-amir stuff that's all

 

[cnerd123]

Lol@ mister and *****. You can disagree with Hafeez and Ali's stance but to call them immature babies is just ridiculous. This is not a trivial matter over which they're protesting.

Obviously immature babies is hyperbolic. Point was to say that this isn't the PCB's fault, this is a decision they took on their own. It is unprofessional, but I do understand it. I just don't think that we need to be applauding it.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I think amir should have been banned for life, but he wasn't. azhar and hafeez should be doing their ****ing job that they are paid to do.

This line of argument is way to simplistic. Can you not see that from their point of view, bringing back a fixer may damage the reputation of the entire team? Maybe they feel Amir may sell out again and affect the team's performance (however unlikely that is) ? Maybe Azhar feels he doesn't have an iota of trust in Amir, which as captain of the team, is a massive factor (think Cook vs KP)? Maybe Azhar thinks the team which he's just about to take over aa leader, will lose a ton of team spirit and camaraderie because of having someone like that in there? There's so much that can go wrong from their point of view. Not just for themselves, but for the whole team. (ie) their job.

You just can't say "Get on with your jobs" here because they probably feel their jobs are going to be negatively affected by this. I mean, ****, I agree professional sportsmen should just do what they're told to by selectors but this case is so unique I'm not sure that applies as rigidly here as in most other cases.

 

[hendrix]

I think amir should have been banned for life, but he wasn't. azhar and hafeez should be doing their ****ing job that they are paid to do.

I think opposite on both counts.

"Just do your ****ing job" is a bit of a weak response to someone objecting to something.

 

[weldone]

does Azhar get final say on those matters?

I hope not, but as captain he surely has a strong say in team meetings I'd guess?

 

[Fusion]

So Azhar and Hafeez have a moral objection about playing with Amir, a spot-fixer. Good for them. How about they show a bit of consistency with their outrage though? Why are they ok playing under Waqar Younis, who was one of the players named by the Qayyum report as having delved into match-fixing? Have they refused to be in the same room as Wasim Akram, Inzi, and Mushy (all of whom were also named in the Qayyum report)? If not, then **** their selective moral outrage. If they found a way to forgive and forget with those players, then they can do the same with Amir.