Mitchell Starc v. Vernon Philander

[stephen]

Sure, except that this is applied almost always selectively and generally for English/Australian cricketers. English batsmen don't average 50+ because they bat in the toughest conditions. Australian bowlers don't average below 24 because they bowl on the flattest of pitches.

Wasim Akram played 41 tests on the flattest pitches in the world in Pakistan and they are different kind of flat than the Australian ones.They don't even have pace, or carry and his slip fielders won't even catch. He still averaged 22 in Pakistan where Dennis Lillee would not tour, and 23 overall but then we say "Wasim gets no extra credit for bowling well on his home tracks". Wasim is considered 'tier 2' on CW.

As long as this is applied consistently across all players, then sure give Starc extra credit. But if it's just going to be "Murali is not all that as he played on the most helpful tracks" but then subsequently we offer no extra credit to Vaas for bowling well on those same tracks, then it's just a continuation of the same hypocrisy "“Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die.”

Who the hell considers Wasim tier 2?

 

[Daemon]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't help but notice that BW just feels like everyone is out to get the poor SC cricketers and he needs to stand up for them against the big bad white men

 

[harsh.ag]

Don't know anyone who considers Wasim tier 2. Just because he's not considered top 5 all time doesn't mean he's considered tier 2. It's very close between Imran and him for Pakistan's greatest bowler though. Not an easy call.

 

[cnerd123]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't help but notice that BW just feels like everyone is out to get the poor SC cricketers and he needs to stand up for them against the big bad white men

You could say he's a bit of a Brown Knight

 

[Black_Warrior]

Who the hell considers Wasim tier 2?

Wasim Akram is not rated as highly on this forum. This has been acknowledged at various times by various people on this forum itself. If you're interested, you can check out the All Time Great cricketer threads where these discussions take place

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't help but notice that BW just feels like everyone is out to get the poor SC cricketers and he needs to stand up for them against the big bad white men

Yepp that's why I was defending Anderson in the other thread and defend Smith against SC fans who bring up LO stats of Kohli.

 

[stephen]

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cri...owler-survival-grand-final-2.html#post2645534

I ran this a few years ago. Wasim Akram #8 of all time.

I think you need to remove the chip from your shoulder BW.

 

[GotSpin]

Don't ruin the BW hurt train Stephen

 

[Tec15]

Maybe that's how you see it, but the best of anything has to be the best across formats. The ODI game is important too and philander isn't close to Starc's level in that. This whole idea that only test cricket matters is so outdated, I assume most of you here are even older than me.

Philander is closer to Starc in ODI's than Starc is to Philander in tests. That's how big a gap there is between them and why Philander is a much better bowler overall.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't help but notice that BW just feels like everyone is out to get the poor SC cricketers and he needs to stand up for them against the big bad white men

If you thought 2017 was bad, 2018 will be the year of everyone being oppressed, and offended, by literally everything, and somehow it will all be the fault of straight white men

 

[SeamUp]

Wasim Akram is not rated as highly on this forum. This has been acknowledged at various times by various people on this forum itself. If you're interested, you can check out the All Time Great cricketer threads where these discussions take place



Yepp that's why I was defending Anderson in the other thread and defend Smith against SC fans who bring up LO stats of Kohli.

Both Jacques Kallis and Brian Lara say Wasim Akram was the best they faced. Obviously both of them didn't face their own great fast bowlers but that just shows you how damn awesome Wasim was.

 

[marc71178]

Philander is closer to Starc in ODI's than Starc is to Philander in tests. That's how big a gap there is between them and why Philander is a much better bowler overall.

Bollocks is he. If anything it's much the other way round.

 

[Gob]

Wasim is a legitimate ATG but there are about around 6 or 7 i'd prefer ahead of him

 

[Gob]

Wasim Akram is not rated as highly on this forum. This has been acknowledged at various times by various people on this forum itself. If you're interested, you can check out the All Time Great cricketer threads where these discussions take place



Yepp that's why I was defending Anderson in the other thread and defend Smith against SC fans who bring up LO stats of Kohli.

You always need a disguise though

 

[Gob]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't help but notice that BW just feels like everyone is out to get the poor SC cricketers and he needs to stand up for them against the big bad white men

someone has to tbh

 

[Daemon]

Yepp that's why I was defending Anderson in the other thread and defend Smith against SC fans who bring up LO stats of Kohli.

Nah don't get me wrong, you're one of the most rational posters here and you always substantiate whatever point you're making. I just feel that lately you've been bringing up that narrative of how people value Aus/Eng/SA cricket more than SC cricket a lot and at times shoehornigg it into places where it may be unwarranted.

You're right about that narrative and there are plenty of people in that little Australian bubble, but there's no point crusading against them on CW where the majority aren't like that.

 

[Redsok]

part of the coming of age process at Cricketweb is taking a stance which is undoubtedly wrong, and then trying to defend it while everyone tells you how incredibly wrong you are. It's our own version of the Trial By Fire.

I feel like this is oblongballs' coming of age.

I also want to tell you how ignorant and stupid you sound.. but what's the point


It's a FACT, that Starc is a genuine fast bowler. Philander is not even Fast Medium or Medium Fast.. but a legit Medium Pacer. Medium Fast, at best. But most of his deliveries are around 120-125


Philander is just EXTREMELY SPECIAL, mostly because of his movement and control.. with insane accuracy. But he's not tall as McGrath, so could never generate that extra bounce. All he had was the movement, which has always been CONDITION dependent.

So a bowler like Philander, as bloody great as he is/was.. would be utterly useless outside the "swinging" conditions. That's a massive liability..

Philander also never been good with the White ball, for obvious reasons.



Starc is a true past bowler, and a left armer. He's a nightmare for any batsman, on any conditions.. with both red and white ball.


So a bowler like Starc and Boult in this era, is pretty rare. If there was a 'draft', they will always be picked first.. ahead of the lies of Philander.

 

[cnerd123]

hey look Redsook is back to dig up old threads

fun times

 

[trundler]

Philander gets picked ahead of those two 9/10 times in drafts though. Interesting to see you've diversified your posting with a non-allrounder necrobump.

 

[h_hurricane]

I also want to tell you how ignorant and stupid you sound.. but what's the point


It's a FACT, that Starc is a genuine fast bowler. Philander is not even Fast Medium or Medium Fast.. but a legit Medium Pacer. Medium Fast, at best. But most of his deliveries are around 120-125


Philander is just EXTREMELY SPECIAL, mostly because of his movement and control.. with insane accuracy. But he's not tall as McGrath, so could never generate that extra bounce. All he had was the movement, which has always been CONDITION dependent.

So a bowler like Philander, as bloody great as he is/was.. would be utterly useless outside the "swinging" conditions. That's a massive liability..

Philander also never been good with the White ball, for obvious reasons.



Starc is a true past bowler, and a left armer. He's a nightmare for any batsman, on any conditions.. with both red and white ball.


So a bowler like Starc and Boult in this era, is pretty rare. If there was a 'draft', they will always be picked first.. ahead of the lies of Philander.

What exactly did Philander lie about ? Curious to know..

 

[ataraxia]

Interesting to see you've diversified your posting with a non-allrounder necrobump

Redsok only chose this thread because both Starc and Philander are arguably all-rounders.