Michael Vaughan's captaincy

[luckyeddie]

You mean David did.

It was him that came up with that conclusion. I guess it was to do with batting spots. I'm not too sure.

Au contraire.

Rikki Clarke is quite rightly an ambitious young man, and any number of people on here have equally quite rightly pointed out that he is quite a long way down the pecking-order for the all-rounder berth in the England side.

Last season, he more-or-less established himself in the Surrey side, usually going in 5 or 6, although this was more often than not because there were a number of players away on England duty.

What he didn't get was much bowling - what he never gets is much bowling - and it's probably why a few of us were surprised at how much he improved as the tour of Bangladesh progressed.

He recognised the fact that he wasn't getting his hands on the ball often enough, and it was this which caused him to admit in public that he had considered leaving Surrey for pastures new.

I have no idea whether he still feels the same - the duck isn't REALLY his uncle.

 

[badgerhair]

I do think that Clarke has future in the England side - I wouldn't go as far as predicting a number of wickets or runs in his career, but in another year I reckon he'll be more-or-less a regular in the test side, but an absolute shoo-in for the ODI team, in much the same way as Jonty was originally - his fielding is worth 10-15 runs alone.

I'm with you on the ODI bit, but I don't really see where you get the Test side bit from.

I'm not saying that he isn't any good, but wondering where he fits into the team - for what purpose do we require another batting all-rounder?

It's the reverse of the Agarkar problem: outside Australia, Aggy's been basically ineffective as a bowler, and it's not as though India are crying out for ways to strengthen their batting, so where does he fit in the side?

Cheers,

Mike

 

[luckyeddie]

I'm with you on the ODI bit, but I don't really see where you get the Test side bit from.

I'm not saying that he isn't any good, but wondering where he fits into the team - for what purpose do we require another batting all-rounder?

It's the reverse of the Agarkar problem: outside Australia, Aggy's been basically ineffective as a bowler, and it's not as though India are crying out for ways to strengthen their batting, so where does he fit in the side?

Cheers,

Mike

I didn't mean to say that I advocate him being a regular - just casting a knowing glance towards Fleet Street (do they still print newspapers on Fleet Street?).

He may well be more of a squad player than one who is a first choice, but the general perception has always been that he's a 'regular-in-waiting', at least from the press (as I've already intimated).

To me (and to you I suppose), he's 'just another poor man's Freddie' (hang on.... Surrey. 'rich man's Freddie') - whether he develops further to command a place with either bat or ball on merit (as opposed to the 'all-rounder' label) remains to be seen.

Michael Vaughan rates him very highly as a batsman, though, so that's half the battle.

Personally, though, I really hope he does make it. I enjoy writing the 'Clarkewatch' articles.

 

[badgerhair]

I didn't mean to say that I advocate him being a regular - just casting a knowing glance towards Fleet Street (do they still print newspapers on Fleet Street?).

No, they don't.

He may well be more of a squad player than one who is a first choice, but the general perception has always been that he's a 'regular-in-waiting', at least from the press (as I've already intimated).

To me (and to you I suppose), he's 'just another poor man's Freddie' (hang on.... Surrey. 'rich man's Freddie') - whether he develops further to command a place with either bat or ball on merit (as opposed to the 'all-rounder' label) remains to be seen.

Michael Vaughan rates him very highly as a batsman, though, so that's half the battle.

Personally, though, I really hope he does make it. I enjoy writing the 'Clarkewatch' articles.

To be fair to the lad, he isn't a product of Surrey's chequebook procurement policy but of Surrey's own youth development, so castigating him for being a Surrey (ptui!) player is a tad unjustified.

I rate him quite highly as a batsman too, and he may well make it to Test level as one (who happens to be able to turn his arm over, but that's a bonus). What I don't really get is this "within a year" bit of yours.

Hussain will be gone in a few months, but surely Collingwood and Pietersen are ahead of Clarke for that spot. The next to go is presumably Thorpe, but do you see him as a likely departure "within a year"? And it's scarcely conceivable that we'd drop the guy who's been the most consistent performer for us since 2001 in Butcher, so I don't see where the place opens up.

We're probably not disagreeing here, really, but I don't really see how he comes into real contention for an injury-less team until Thorpe retires, and I don't think that's as imminent as your timetable seems to imply.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[marc71178]

How long can we expect Collingwood to come into the Test team on a perminate basis?

IMO I'd put him there for the 3rd Test.

Trescothick
Vaughan
Butcher
Hussain
Thorpe
Collingwood
Flintoff
Read
Hoggard
Jones
Harmison

 

[PY]

Trescothick
Vaughan
Butcher
Hussain
Thorpe
Collingwood
Flintoff
Read
Hoggard
Jones
Harmison

That's the exact team I would go for.

Unfortunately, I feel Gile-o is just serving as a sort of batting all-rounder in this series as he is being used very sparingly.

Collingwood can easily make up the overs that Giles would bowl. He's a medium pacer isn't he? Maybe a conversion to spin bowling would do him some good.....

 

[anzac]

unless he gives it away Vaughan will keep the Captaincy on the strength of the team performance in the current series alone, let alone for any individual form..................

however it may be a very different situation after he goes head to head with Fleming after they way he has orchestrated the domination of RSA in the current series...................something England were unable to do.............

 

[Craig]

IMO I'd put him there for the 3rd Test.

Trescothick
Vaughan
Butcher
Hussain
Thorpe
Collingwood
Flintoff
Read
Hoggard
Jones
Harmison

That's a good side.

Vaughan to bowl a maximum 5-10 overs (that's what he is good for, maybe even 15 but no more) and Collingwood can fill in with the ball.

This could be Read's last chance in this Test or the 4th to prove himself as a Test cricketer.

 

[Craig]

Hussain will be gone in a few months, but surely Collingwood and Pietersen are ahead of Clarke for that spot.

What sort of time frame for Hussain at the end of the West Indies tour of England?

I think he will play until 100 Tests, but if he gets runs he aint going anywhere whether that be via the selectors forcing him out or Hussain announcing he is to concrate on his golf swing.

 

[marc71178]

This could be Read's last chance in this Test or the 4th to prove himself as a Test cricketer.

Erm why?

His keeping has been extremely good, and last I checked, he was in the side as a Wicketkeeper.

 

[badgerhair]

What sort of time frame for Hussain at the end of the West Indies tour of England?

I think he will play until 100 Tests, but if he gets runs he aint going anywhere whether that be via the selectors forcing him out or Hussain announcing he is to concrate on his golf swing.

It is well-known that it is Hussain's intention to retire at the end of the English season, which will comfortably see him to his 100th Test if he stays in the side. The fascinating thing about him at the moment is his utter insistence on being treated as a player on his own merits: more than any of the youngsters, he is visibly attempting to prove his worth to the side with every game - at least in part because nowadays he feels rather isolated, as there's only Thorpey of his generation, and Thorpe's not exactly a social sort of guy, and all the rest simply want to sit in their hotel rooms playing Grand Theft Auto.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[luckyeddie]

I rate him quite highly as a batsman too, and he may well make it to Test level as one (who happens to be able to turn his arm over, but that's a bonus). What I don't really get is this "within a year" bit of yours.

Ah, but I didn't say which year.

Phew. Got out of that nicely (walks quietly away, whistling).

 

[Craig]

Erm why?

His keeping has been extremely good, and last I checked, he was in the side as a Wicketkeeper.

I was talking from a batting point of view.

Has anybody seen Richard lately?

 

[luckyeddie]

I was talking from a batting point of view.

Has anybody seen Richard lately?

My guess is that he is lurking

 

[Craig]

Maybe so. Havent seen from him in all week.