McGrath vs Hadlee

[Slifer]

Akram had better Wicket per innings, Better ER, Better 5fer and 10fer ratio.

Marshall slightly better avg and SR.

The fact that you had to chop and change Akram's career to manage the above speaks volumes but ok...

 

[capt_Luffy]

Playing with an injury again is not unique to SRT. Lara played the entire 2000 series vs Australia with a damaged shoulder and hamstring injury. And played in 2002 having dislocated his elbow in late 2001. It happens.

It happens and we should adjust for it, especially in a h2h with such small sample sizes. FTR, I am not commenting on Lara vs McGrath, just that McGrath really had nothing over Tendulkar.

 

[Slifer]

It happens and we should adjust for it, especially in a h2h with such small sample sizes. FTR, I am not commenting on Lara vs McGrath, just that McGrath really had nothing over Tendulkar.

And he had nothing over Lara overall then. Good to see we agree.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

The fact that you had to chop and change Akram's career to manage the above speaks volumes but ok...

The fact that you had to compare Marshall's 13 year career to someone else's 18 year career to make Marshall superior speaks volumes.. But not ok..

 

[Coronis]

Playing with an injury again is not unique to SRT. Lara played the entire 2000 series vs Australia with a damaged shoulder and hamstring injury. And played in 2002 having dislocated his elbow in late 2001. It happens.

Some blokes even have to play through broken toenails.

 

[Slifer]

Some blokes even have to play through broken toenails.

Haha,I heard about that...poor fella

 

[Slifer]

The fact that you had to compare Marshall's 13 year career to someone else's 18 year career to make Marshall superior speaks volumes.. But not ok..

Sure....keep telling yourself that.

 

[Slifer]

No they aren’t.

Notice the amount of hoops he has to jump through to make his point but he sees nothing wrong with this....

 

[Slifer]

Donald dismissed prime Tendulkar once a series in three series. Tendulkar scored moderately. I don't recall Tendulkar particularly struggling against Donald. Would call it a draw.

I just noticed this gem. Lara and Sachin played Donald in exactly the same number of innings ie 20 innings. Donald dismissed Sachin 5 times and Sachin averaged 32.90. Lara was dismissed 6 times and he averaged 34.05. But according to Subz because Sachin looked more comfortable and Donald didn't dismiss Sachin in his "prime" it's a draw. Lara never played Donald in his prime either but ok. Subz being consistently inconsistent as usual.....

 

[subshakerz]

And he had nothing over Lara overall then. Good to see we agree.

Overall sure. In Australia, he certainly dominated Lara.

 

[subshakerz]

I just noticed this gem. Lara and Sachin played Donald in exactly the same number of innings ie 20 innings. Donald dismissed Sachin 5 times and Sachin averaged 32.90. Lara was dismissed 6 times and he averaged 34.05. But according to Subz because Sachin looked more comfortable and Donald didn't dismiss Sachin in his "prime" it's a draw. Lara never played Donald in his prime either but ok. Subz being consistently inconsistent as usual.....

Sachin also played Donald in his teen years is what I was referring to by not-prime.

Lara in his prime in 98 did face Donald and Donald took his wicket 5 times in that series, having issues with his pace and bounce.

 

[DrWolverine]

F

Sachin also played Donald in his teen years is what I was referring to by not-prime.

Lara in his prime in 98 did face Donald and Donald took his wicket 5 times in that series, having issues with his pace and bounce.

WI worst ever loss at that time
Whitewashed 5-0

 

[Chin Music]

Mcgrath has a longevity factor that tilts this towards him slightly

Not really Hadlee's fault that they played nowhere near as much back in the day. I mean he was nearly 39 when he retired from test cricket. I would say that in terms of overall performance in all conditions, that McGrath had the edge as a bowler, as he was less reliant on outright swing/seam than what Hadlee was. McGrath could bowl reverse, particularly in his younger days, but is famous for extracting extra bounce on the hard off stump line, pretty much wherever he played.

 

[kyear2]

I just noticed this gem. Lara and Sachin played Donald in exactly the same number of innings ie 20 innings. Donald dismissed Sachin 5 times and Sachin averaged 32.90. Lara was dismissed 6 times and he averaged 34.05. But according to Subz because Sachin looked more comfortable and Donald didn't dismiss Sachin in his "prime" it's a draw. Lara never played Donald in his prime either but ok. Subz being consistently inconsistent as usual.....

But one struggled and the other didn't.

 

[Slifer]

Sachin also played Donald in his teen years is what I was referring to by not-prime.

Lara in his prime in 98 did face Donald and Donald took his wicket 5 times in that series, having issues with his pace and bounce.

Therefore, in the other 10 innings he took Lara's wicket a total of: one time. And Lara’s worse series away to Donald (one series) he averaged 31. Sachin averaged 27 at home around the same time. Come on now. And if you want to say Donald dismissed once, that's beside the point he still failed.

 

[Slifer]

But one struggled and the other didn't.

In Subz's world both averaged 30 odd but only one failed even though they both played the exact same number of innings and were dismissed the sane number of times (6 vs 5). And he said Lara was in his prime; bull. Lara's prime (well documented) lasted from 1992ish to 1996 or so, then he slumped until the 2001 series in SL. The man couldn't even score one single hundred vs England at home in 1998.

 

[subshakerz]

In Subz's world both averaged 30 odd but only one failed even though they both played the exact same number of innings and were dismissed the sane number of times (6 vs 5). And he said Lara was in his prime; bull. Lara's prime (well documented) lasted from 1992ish to 1996 or so, then he slumped until the 2001 series in SL. The man couldn't even score one single hundred vs England at home in 1998.

Prime is not the same as peak. Prime means years of batting maturity before decline during age. Injuries are an excuse but poor form is not an excuse.

Therefore, in the other 10 innings he took Lara's wicket a total of: one time. And Lara’s worse series away to Donald (one series) he averaged 31. Sachin averaged 27 at home around the same time. Come on now. And if you want to say Donald dismissed once, that's beside the point he still failed.

It's silly posting overall averages and wickets without looking at series context.

Forget the 92 series as a teen. Tendulkar from my recollection of the 96, 97 and 2000 series never really struggled against Donald at all. At most he was a tad conservative against him. Felt more uncomfy against Cronje.

Lara did struggle against Donalds pace and bounce in 98 to the point where Donald lost respect for him for his loose shots. The next time they faced was in 2001 and Donald was 34 years old and near career end at that point with his pace having declined.

Here's a nice quote from Donald at the time:
'Consistency is the factor that makes Tendulkar special. He is often spoken about in the same breath as Brian Lara, but as far as I am concerned, the comparison does not even begin. Lara is not half as consistent as Tendulkar and lacks the discipline of the latter. The left-hander plays in a more loose manner and is not that controlled or patient during the first 20 minutes of his innings. Lara was unbelievable in 1994, but he has never been able to recreate that magic consistently after that.'

Thankfully Lara rediscovered his form but Donald was gone by then.

To be fair, Tendulkar never faced the 2Ws at their peak unlike Lara who was mixed against them too, with one good series and one poor one.

 

[Slifer]

Prime is not the same as peak. Prime means years of batting maturity before decline during age. Injuries are an excuse but poor form is not an excuse.



It's silly posting overall averages and wickets without looking at series context.

Forget the 92 series as a teen. Tendulkar from my recollection of the 96, 97 and 2000 series never really struggled against Donald at all. At most he was a tad conservative against him. Felt more uncomfy against Cronje.

Lara did struggle against Donalds pace and bounce in 98 to the point where Donald lost respect for him for his loose shots. The next time they faced was in 2001 and Donald was 34 years old and near career end at that point with his pace having declined.

Here's a nice quote from Donald at the time:
'Consistency is the factor that makes Tendulkar special. He is often spoken about in the same breath as Brian Lara, but as far as I am concerned, the comparison does not even begin. Lara is not half as consistent as Tendulkar and lacks the discipline of the latter. The left-hander plays in a more loose manner and is not that controlled or patient during the first 20 minutes of his innings. Lara was unbelievable in 1994, but he has never been able to recreate that magic consistently after that.'

Thankfully Lara rediscovered his form but Donald was gone by then.

To be fair, Tendulkar never faced the 2Ws at their peak unlike Lara who was mixed against them too, with one good series and one poor one.

So we agree Sachin failed just as much vs Donald as Lara did. Because in the series you quoted, he averaged: 27, 40 and 36. What other context is there? Was he successful vs Donald ? No. Now was that so hard?? Great talk.

 

[subshakerz]

So we agree Sachin failed just as much vs Donald as Lara did. Because in the series you quoted, he averaged: 27, 40 and 36. What other context is there? Was he successful vs Donald ? No. Now was that so hard?? Great talk.

Context being he only got out to Donald once per series, so you can say he failed against SA but not Donald specifically.

Lara did fail against Donald specifically in 98 when both were in their prime.

Done

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Notice the amount of hoops he has to jump through to make his point but he sees nothing wrong with this....

What
No one stopped Marshall from playing another 5 years. Its not Akram's fault, he was capable of playing international cricket 18 years.

What if Bradman played another 20 years and retired with 40 avg, would you still rate him GOAT batsman?