McGrath Vs Akram!

[Swervy]

Okay let us put it this way - Brian Lara averages about 30 when Akram Plays for Pakistan whereas he averages about 46 when Mcgrath plays for Australia.

and what does that prove......i dont really know what you getting at there, sorry

 

[Swervy]

Okay let us put it this way - Brian Lara averages about 30 when Akram Plays for Pakistan whereas he averages about 46 when Mcgrath plays for Australia.

tendulkar averages over 10 runs an inning less vs New Zealand than vs Australia...what does it prove.....bugger all if you ask me

 

[Swervy]

Are you calling WI a strong Team ??

well for 9 of the 20 tests McGrath has played vs WI, WI could be considered strongish, certainly not pushovers

 

[Sanz]

tendulkar averages over 10 runs an inning less vs New Zealand than vs Australia...what does it prove.....bugger all if you ask me

And Waqar Younis is a better bowler than Mcgrath because it seems to me that he has taken more top order batsmen than Mcgrath.

You present entire cricinfo to support your argument, when I present you same cricinfo - you come up with 'Bugger all' argument ?

 

[Swervy]

And Waqar Younis is a better bowler than Mcgrath because it seems to me that he has taken more top order batsmen than Mcgrath.

You present entire cricinfo to support your argument, when I present you same cricinfo - you come up with 'Bugger all' argument ?

erm...no..the figures I quoted about the top order batsman that McGrath and Akram had got out over their careers was completely relevent to the topic, which is Akram vs McGrath.

I just dont understand what point you were trying to prove when you said Lara averages xxx vs Australia when he averages yyy vs Pakistan.

 

[Sanz]

well for 9 of the 20 tests McGrath has played vs WI, WI could be considered strongish, certainly not pushovers

Not Really. Since the retirement of Hayens/Greenidge/Richards etc WI have always had weak batting team in TESTS.

They were good because their bowling was much better with Ambrose & Walsh around.

 

[Swervy]

Not Really. Since the retirement of Hayens/Greenidge/Richards etc WI have always had weak batting team in TESTS.

They were good because their bowling was much better with Ambrose & Walsh around.

ok..fair enough.

I dont really see the relevence to the whole Akram vs McGrath debate, I only mentioned that in reply to a comment about WI not being a strong team

 

[Sanz]

erm...no..the figures I quoted about the top order batsman that McGrath and Akram had got out over their careers was completely relevent to the topic, which is Akram vs McGrath.

I just dont understand what point you were trying to prove when you said Lara averages xxx vs Australia when he averages yyy vs Pakistan.

The point is Mcgrath has got Lara 13 times, but at the same time Lara has made runs galore against him. For example Lara Scoring 213,182,153* etc against the same mcgrath & Co. hardly proves anything.

Mcgrath has gotten Lara more no. of occasions simply because he has bowled much more to him than Akram.

 

[godofcricket]

Mcgrath is 33.Obviously his stats are much better right now when you compare it to Akrams when he retired at 36 (because of his age). I remember Akram having a average of 20.90 in tests when he was 32/33. And right now McGraths stats are slowly going south wards.Which also concludes that if he plays 2 or 3 more years his avergae, economy and SR will be much higher!

On another note as reallyCrazy said he has played majority of his one day games in Australia then any country.

 

[Swervy]

The point is Mcgrath has got Lara 13 times, but at the same time Lara has made runs galore against him. For example Lara Scoring 213,182,153* etc against the same mcgrath & Co. hardly proves anything.

Mcgrath has gotten Lara more no. of occasions simply because he has bowled much more to him than Akram.

valid point...however, we are talking about arguably the best batsman since Viv richards here (dont want to get into the Tendulkar vs Lara thing here, hence the 'arguably'). mcgrath has also had a good deal of sucess vs Lara as well, he is the only bowler to get Lara out twice for a duck.

once a batsman like Lara gets away, there is no stopping him. McGrath has had great success at actually getting Lara out before he gets going...in 42 innings since McGraths debut vs WI,he has got Lara out 8 times in single figures and 10 times under a score of thirty. To do that vs Lara takes some doing, and I would doubt if any bowler in the world has had that much success against him

 

[Swervy]

Mcgrath is 33.Obviously his stats are much better right now when you compare it to Akrams when he retired at 36 (because of his age). I remember Akram having a average of 20.90 in tests when he was 32/33. And right now McGraths stats are slowly going south wards.Which also concludes that if he plays 2 or 3 more years his avergae, economy and SR will be much higher!

On another note as reallyCrazy said he has played majority of his one day games in Australia then any country.

i would hardly say McGraths bowling average is dropping to much to be honest (it is actaully lower than what it was about 18 minths ago).

godofcricket, you remember wrongly i am afraid the last time Akram had an average as low as Mcgraths current test average was in march 1986, but who cares.

Why is everyone so sure McGraths performance will slip that much anyway...is everyone assuming a bit here. I wouldnt want to guess what will happen in the future..and Akrams bowling performances hardly slipped as he got older anyway..in fact in a lot of ways I feel Akram got better when his body wouldnt allow him to bowl so fast, in the same way Malcolm marshall learnt that by slowing down,he could be even more successful.

 

[Sanz]

Okay I did try to Compare Mcgrath & Akram's top order(top 6/7 using my best judgement) dismissals and Mcgrath is around 295-305 out of 430 (70 %) compared to Akram's 270-280 out of 414 (65 %).

So it seems that Mcgrath getting the top order seems more like an exaggertation because I think Mcgrath has an advantage of playing for great fielders and him still being in his prime can be one of the reasons for such small margin.

 

[Swervy]

Okay I did try to Compare Mcgrath & Akram's top order(top 6/7 using my best judgement) dismissals and Mcgrath is around 295-305 out of 430 (70 %) compared to Akram's 270-280 out of 414 (65 %).

So it seems that Mcgrath getting the top order seems more like an exaggertation because I think Mcgrath has an advantage of playing for great fielders and him still being in his prime can be one of the reasons for such small margin.

right..ok..whatever.

All I have done during this thread is state reasons why it is a bit daft to say Akram was miles better than McGrath. I know it comes down to personal preference, but I have just tried to bring a bit of balance to the discussion.

But every single piece of reasoned arguement or even statistical fact that I have presented to show that there realistically is no way on earth that Akram can be classed as so far ahead of McGrath as a bowler, appears to be futile, because people then bring arguements like 'yeah but what if Akram played with better fielders' or' McGraths figures will probably go poor as he gets older'......I am not going to continue with a discussion where people use a bunch of hypothetical scenarios in order to prove a point, coz that kind of stuff isnt going to wash with me.

I have shown that McGrath's figures in both ODI's and tests is superior to Akrams, I have shown you that a higher proportion of McGrath wickets (a few more wickets in tests in less games i might add) have been top class batsmen, whereas Akram took more of his wickets lower down the order...but obviously the arguements that have won out here are 1. mcGrath didnt deserve his wickets because they were alot of the time catches...2. Akram is so obviously a better bowler because he moved the ball about more than McGrath and 3. McGraths figures are an exaggeration because he has played with great fielders.

what a waste of time!!!!!

 

[Swervy]

but what the hell..I know i am right :P...and no doubt i will be drawn into mCGrath corner before too long on this thread anyway...hehehehe

 

[Sanz]

mcgrath has also had a good deal of sucess vs Lara as well, he is the only bowler to get Lara out twice for a duck.
once a batsman like Lara gets away, there is no stopping him. McGrath has had great success at actually getting Lara out before he gets going...in 42 innings since McGraths debut vs WI,he has got Lara out 8 times in single figures and 10 times under a score of thirty. To do that vs Lara takes some doing, and I would doubt if any bowler in the world has had that much success against him

He has had his shares of failures against Lara as well (which kinda even out his excellent record against Lara). Here are some of the great batting performances of Lara against Aus(Since Mcgrath's debut) :-

65,88,65,78,132,62,213,153*,100, 182,68, 60, 42,43,44 - 5 centuries, 7 Fifties and 3 40+ scores in 38 innings with two not out scores.Not really a domination.

 

[Sanz]

but what the hell..I know i am right

Look at the poll Results. It starts with a click on <view results>

 

[Swervy]

He has had his shares of failures against Lara as well (which kinda even out his excellent record against Lara). Here are some of the great batting performances of Lara against Aus(Since Mcgrath's debut) :-

65,88,65,78,132,62,213,153*,100, 182,68, 60, 42,43,44 - 5 centuries, 7 Fifties and 3 40+ scores in 38 innings with two not out scores.Not really a domination.

damn..i can resist replying.......yeah,as i said before, we are talking about one of the most dominant batsmen of out time, he is bound to have big scores as well

 

[Swervy]

Look at the poll Results. It starts with a click on <view results>

have you also considered the fact that maybe akrams batting ability may have given him a few votes as well

 

[Sanz]

have you also considered the fact that maybe akrams batting ability may have given him a few votes as well

Whatever, the fact does remain that Akram does win here(and he will win everywhere) by a country mile. What is it 28 to 9 in fav. of Akram ??

 

[Sanz]

damn..i can resist replying.......yeah,as i said before, we are talking about one of the most dominant batsmen of out time, he is bound to have big scores as well

Yeah and what is the score of the LAra against Akram. I hear he wasn't even to cross 100 against Akram.