McGrath & Lillee vs Donald & Steyn vs Imran & Akram

[DrWolverine]

Now that I think about it, Donald really was worldclass for only 4-5 years.

Donald between 1995-2000 was the best in the world. He was truly the perfect fast bowler at that time - Fast, aggressive and always looking to attack and great to see him bowl

47 Tests.
233 wickets.
Avg of 19.8
SR of 43.1
16 5-Fer

 

[subshakerz]

I think other people are wrong about current cricketers all the time so see no reason to assume I'd have agreed with the consensus at the time either.

I agree with your points but I think Lillee can't be dropped below top 10. I would rate him ahead of Trueman who has similar issues.

 

[kyear2]

I think other people are wrong about current cricketers all the time so see no reason to assume I'd have agreed with the consensus at the time either.

Was there an alternative to the consensus though. Most at the time wouldn't have been that familiar with Lindwall and Davidson seemed to just meld into history.

Lillee also had an insane wpm and even guys like Hadlee deferred to him (and he was better than Paddles in the 70's).

So no reason to believe the consensus was wrong tbh. There was a serious lack of pacers that succeeded away from home. Trueman couldn't even consistently keep his place, and who else?

So yeah, the consensus may have been right, just the art was only after coming to the fore.

 

[subshakerz]

Donald between 1995-2000 was the best in the world. He was truly the perfect fast bowler at that time - Fast, aggressive and always looking to attack and great to see him bowl

47 Tests.
233 wickets.
Avg of 19.8
SR of 43.1
16 5-Fer

Well I recall the 90s. Ambrose basically was tops with Wasim for the first half. Ambrose basically declined post shoulder operation in 94 and Wasim I would say was the best pacer until around 97 before Donald took over and he reigned until I would say 99 when it was clear McGrath and ATG Aus had truly arrived.

 

[ankitj]

Saw him destroy us often enough, feel like the SA guys are really underrated around here.

Yup here's the code

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/posts/4809290/

 

[Prince EWS]

Was there an alternative to the consensus though. Most at the time wouldn't have been that familiar with Lindwall and Davidson seemed to just meld into history.

Lillee also had an insane wpm and even guys like Hadlee deferred to him (and he was better than Paddles in the 70's).

So no reason to believe the consensus was wrong tbh. There was a serious lack of pavers that succeeded away from home. Trueman couldn't even consistently keep his place, and who else?

So yeah, the consensus may have been right, just the art was only after coming to the fore.

Yeah true, Hoggard wasn't even close to debuting yet.

 

[subshakerz]

So no reason to believe the consensus was wrong tbh. There was a serious lack of pavers that succeeded away from home. Trueman couldn't even consistently keep his place, and who else?

So yeah, the consensus may have been right, just the art was only after coming to the fore.

Lillee built his consensus at a time when his only serious competition was Roberts. So that has to be factored in. I still give him credit for it but not quite as much as Wasim who had the peer rating in a more competitive phase.

 

[kyear2]

Donald between 1995-2000 was the best in the world. He was truly the perfect fast bowler at that time - Fast, aggressive and always looking to attack and great to see him bowl

47 Tests.
233 wickets.
Avg of 19.8
SR of 43.1
16 5-Fer

What were Wasim's stats for that corresponding period?

And yeah, that was after Ambrose's shoulder issues, and as I said, Donald was rapid and just one of my favorite and most feared bowlers during his career. He have everyone fits, well not in Oz, but yeah.

 

[ankitj]

These are excellent points.

Now that I think about it, Donald really was worldclass for only 4-5 years. Pollock until 2003 has a good case to be rated near him and was more of a big match performer away.

Wasn't Donald world class right from his debut until 98/99. So that would be 7 years of being world class.

 

[DrWolverine]

In terms of viewing pleasure
For me : Donald > Ambrose > Akram > McGrath

 

[kyear2]

Yup here's the code

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/posts/4809290/

Yeah, that's kinda true tbh.

Actually it's just facts.

 

[DrWolverine]

Wasn't Donald world class right from his debut until 98/99. So that would be 7 years of being world class.

Donald made his debut at age of 25 in 1992.

From 1992-2000, he was a world class bowler and just as good as anyone else at that time.

 

[kyear2]

Lillee built his consensus at a time when his only serious competition was Roberts. So that has to be factored in. I still give him credit for it but not quite as much as Wasim who had the peer rating in a more competitive phase.

Forgot about Roberts, and this may sound strange, but think he was more great than good.

 

[DrWolverine]

Donald was rapid and just one of my favorite and most feared bowlers during his career.

1992-2000

 

[kyear2]

Well I recall the 90s. Ambrose basically was tops with Wasim for the first half. Ambrose basically declined post shoulder operation in 94 and Wasim I would say was the best pacer until around 97 before Donald took over and he reigned until I would say 99 when it was clear McGrath and ATG Aus had truly arrived.

Well from my memory Ambrose was tops from about 89 /90 till '94. Donald was possibly the most dominant there after, Lara had his issues with him for sure.

Now I'm really thinking about it, was Wasim ever really full the undisputed no. 1? Because after Donald it was definitely McGrath.

 

[kyear2]

1992-2000
View attachment 42812

Yeah, underrated.

 

[subshakerz]

Well from my memory Ambrose was tops from about 89 /90 till '94. Donald was possibly the most dominant there after, Lara had his issues with him for sure.

Now I'm really thinking about it, was Wasim ever really full the undisputed no. 1? Because after Donald it was definitely McGrath.

Definitely between 95 to 97. At that point it was just who does well against Australia that determined the best rated in the pundit circuit.

Ambroses image had dropped after the 95 tour to WI when he was seen as less of a threat. Wasim had two quality back to back series against Aus in 94 and 95 and then a great C&U ODI series. I recall commentators speaking of Wasim in those terms then.

 

[DrWolverine]

Well from my memory Ambrose was tops from about 89 /90 till '94. Donald was possibly the most dominant there after, Lara had his issues with him for sure.

Now I'm really thinking about it, was Wasim ever really full the undisputed no. 1? Because after Donald it was definitely McGrath.

Not from what I remember

Ambrose was the best when I started watching. After that it was Donald and later McGrath. I am not counting Muralitharan.

 

[Coronis]

I don't think we can drop him below ATG, he was rated the GOAT when he retired. Though to be fair it was basically just Lindwall and Davidson before him and he did have a forceful personality.

But yeah, your points are all very valid.

Davidson = Lindwall > Lillee

 

[Coronis]

Not from what I remember

Ambrose was the best when I started watching. After that it was Donald and later McGrath. I am not counting Muralitharan.

Well I believe this discussion only refers to pace bowlers otherwise Warne’s name would likely pop up after Ambrose’s.