Martin Crowe vs Allan Border

[Burgey]

He was when he debuted in 84-85. Terrifically fast but all over the shop. Had a decent 85 Ashes but then was out of the side (even that side) for a few years. Didn’t even tour in 89.

 

[jimmy101]

Forgetting Boony, Swampy & Deano as well.

 

[Bolo]

Border wasn't manly enough to own up to his limitations and have a good cry like Hughes. Instead he plowed on and captained AUS to the longest period of mediocrity in its history.

Hughes vs Crowe a more worthy pole.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

What was bradman’s post war cricketing contribution compared with Border’s ffs? The only players who come close to Border post-war are Imran and arguably Sobers. Worrell too, though he wasn’t the player either of the other three were.

No one carried and rebuilt a side around him like Border. No one. He didn’t pick and choose which tours to go on, didn’t resign and take back the captaincy when it suited him, barely if ever had a rubbish series without contributing. He dragged them from virtual minnows to all but top of the tree by force of will.

Worrell arguably better player than Border.

 

[Engle]

What was bradman’s post war cricketing contribution compared with Border’s ffs? The only players who come close to Border post-war are Imran and arguably Sobers. Worrell too, though he wasn’t the player either of the other three were.

No one carried and rebuilt a side around him like Border. No one. He didn’t pick and choose which tours to go on, didn’t resign and take back the captaincy when it suited him, barely if ever had a rubbish series without contributing. He dragged them from virtual minnows to all but top of the tree by force of will.

Newer generations will not know the burden he carried, nor are there any form of stats to illustrate such a rejuvenation.

In fact, IIRC, Border was not even considered leadership material, what with his grumpy grinding persona. But when no one was left to carry the baton, he took it on - from the very back of the line and with nary a talent in his team. Yet, slowly and surely, leading from the front, he dragged his team forward culminating in the WC victory and set the stage for future generations.

An immortal, undoubtedly

 

[Burgey]

Forgetting Boony, Swampy & Deano as well.

Marsh averaged 30 odd. Each of Boon and Jones was dropped fro the test side in the mid-80s.

You’re conflating the players they became with the players they were circa 84-88. Also, generally speaking Jones was the dead rubber king of 80s test cricket. Big tons in the final tests of the 86-87 Ashes and 88-89 WI series as examples.

Might have been a far less gloomy period had Reid been consistently fit, but everyone knows how that panned out for the bloke.

 

[Burgey]

Worrell arguably better player than Border.

Arguably, but the stats don’t bear it out. Wonderful contributor to cricket though. So sad he died so young

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Arguably, but the stats don’t bear it out. Wonderful contributor to cricket though. So sad he died so young

Similar Stats with bat, Better stats with ball iirc.

 

[Burgey]

Bowled a lot more than Border did. Worrell can’t be underestimated for his contribution as the first black WI captain. Never had to carry a side like TOTAB did though. Hall, Sobers, Hunte, Alexander, Kanhai. Decent players tstl

 

[Burgey]

Just got off the phone from Imran Khan* who agrees with me that TOTAB is the greatest post-war cricketer. I'd say that seals this argument forever.






* Plaintiff solicitor from Wollongong.