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Marshall vs Hadlee - Poll Added

Who was the better Test bowler?

  • Total voters
    41
H

hang on

State Vice-Captain
marshall edging paddles in this one. not on stats and suchlike but from what i have actually seen - easily the greatest fast bowler i have had the great fortune to watch.
 
Dissector

Dissector

International Debutant
robelinda said:
Whats Hadlee's record in the SC like? My memory is- right or wrong - is that he thrived on a lot of bowler helpful wickets but was less effective on less helpful wickets. Quite happy for stats to educate me.
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I remember watching Hadlee bowl in India in the NZ tour of the late 80's. That was a really fun series at a time when results in India were quite rare. India won the first game, lost the second and went on to win the series. Would love to watch highlights of that series especially for Hadlee but it's probably locked somewhere in the Doordarshan archives.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
Would like to know if anyone has clips of Marshall vs India 1983/84, especially when he bowled to Sunny. Aparticular over in particular I would love to see for myself.
 
A

Army_Guy

Banned
Teja. said:
Even among all the ATG pacers of the post-1970 period, Imran, Hadlee, Mcgrath, Marshall and Donald pretty much equals, for mine.
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Fair enough but I disagree with that part. He has a heavily boosted record thanks to the minnow of his era (SL).

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

IMO, best five bowlers should be something like this:

Marshall/Ambrose/McGrath
Hadlee/Donald

Another thing, I see a lot of people try to justify rating somebody higher because of teammates. I disagree completely. A good bowler should perform good regardless of who their teammates are. Better teammates has its downsides too. Because it means that others in your team are taking more wickets away/giving away less runs.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Army_Guy said:
Fair enough but I disagree with that part. He has a heavily boosted record thanks to the minnow of his era (SL).

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

IMO, best five bowlers should be something like this:

Marshall/Ambrose/McGrath
Hadlee/Donald

Another thing, I see a lot of people try to justify rating somebody higher because of teammates. I disagree completely. A good bowler should perform good regardless of who their teammates are. Better teammates has its downsides too. Because it means that others in your team are taking more wickets away/giving away less runs.
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Would always rank Imran over Donald. Donald never quite got on top of the Aussies during his time, while Imran had the best record of any pacer against the WI who were the best of his time. It's not a mere statistical distinction, if you actually watched Donald, especially against the Aussies, you would know how his shoulders dropped when things went against him, while Imran seemed to rise to every new challenge.
 
H

hang on

State Vice-Captain
if you actually watched Donald, especially against the Aussies, you would know how his shoulders dropped when things went against him
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that is also the reason why warne also did not rate him particularly highly.
 
A

Army_Guy

Banned
subshakerz said:
Would always rank Imran over Donald. Donald never quite got on top of the Aussies during his time, while Imran had the best record of any pacer against the WI who were the best of his time. It's not a mere statistical distinction, if you actually watched Donald, especially against the Aussies, you would know how his shoulders dropped when things went against him, while Imran seemed to rise to every new challenge.
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Well hate to break the bubble here but WI were nowhere near the batting team the Aussies were in their era. I don't think they even were the best team with the the bat. Dominated all because of their ridiculously good fast bowlers to be honest.

Plus not doing so well against the best team hardly seems like a good enough reason to put him down that low. And I know you said its not all about numbers but an average of 31 against the best team is hardly that bad to rate him as low as you are doing. Also, he has like the best record in Asia which most foreign bowlers find it hard to adjust so I think that would count for something as well.

I have seen Donald bowl to Australia and it was hardly as bad as you make it sound like. Donald is still quite clearly ahead that way I see it. Might even edge past Hadlee here.
 
smash84

smash84

The Tiger King
Army_Guy said:
Well hate to break the bubble here but WI were nowhere near the batting team the Aussies were in their era. I don't think they even were the best team with the the bat. Dominated all because of their ridiculously good fast bowlers to be honest.

Plus not doing so well against the best team hardly seems like a good enough reason to put him down that low. And I know you said its not all about numbers but an average of 31 against the best team is hardly that bad to rate him as low as you are doing. Also, he has like the best record in Asia which most foreign bowlers find it hard to adjust so I think that would count for something as well.

I have seen Donald bowl to Australia and it was hardly as bad as you make it sound like. Donald is still quite clearly ahead that way I see it. Might even edge past Hadlee here.
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Dude you should be out on the PT grounds :p.....

What do you mean by THAT low?

Also who was the best batting team in the 80s? Sri Lanka?

Donald gets extra marks for doing well in Asia and Imran doesn't?
 
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M

miscer

U19 Cricketer
smalishah84 said:
Dude you should be out on the PT grounds :p.....

What do you mean by THAT low?

Also who was the best batting team in the 80s? Sri Lanka?

Donald gets extra marks for doing well in Asia and Imran doesn't?
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well for donald it's foreign conditions so it's gonna be more impressive if he performs well in a place he's not used to bowling at all. but yea i love donald so im biased.
 
smash84

smash84

The Tiger King
miscer said:
well for donald it's foreign conditions so it's gonna be more impressive if he performs well in a place he's not used to bowling at all. but yea i love donald so im biased.
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So Imran doesn't get marks for bowling well abroad?

It can't be both ways
 
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