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Malcolm Marshall vs Glenn McGrath (as Test bowlers)

Who was the greater Test bowler?

  • McGrath

  • Marshall

Results are only viewable after voting.
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
Burgey said:
Be nightmare new ball attack.
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Everything about their styles and skill sets compliment each other so well, that it's not even a question for me that they would open an AT attack and batting wouldn't even factor into it.

No question in my mind that they were the two best ever.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
kyear2 said:
Everything about their styles and skill sets compliment each other so well, that it's not even a question for me that they would open an AT attack and batting wouldn't even factor into it.

No question in my mind that they were the two best ever.
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Hadlee has a good case to be McGraths equal if not better.

After all, Hadlee was a bit quicker through the air. Both were highly analytical accurate bowlers but Hadlee got a bit more movement in general, whereas McGrath took more advantage of his height and slight adjustments to length rather than movement. McGrath had better support bowlers and scoreboard pressure, Hadlee had easier home conditions.

Again, it's really a tossup. I prefer McGrath due to longevity of career sample but it's a preference.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
subshakerz said:
Hadlee has a good case to be McGraths equal if not better.

After all, Hadlee was a bit quicker through the air. Both were highly analytical accurate bowlers but Hadlee got a bit more movement in general, whereas McGrath took more advantage of his height and slight adjustments to length rather than movement. McGrath had better support bowlers and scoreboard pressure, Hadlee had easier home conditions.

Again, it's really a tossup. I prefer McGrath due to longevity of career sample but it's a preference.
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No doubt "in my mind" that Marshall and McGrath are the best two ever.
And to take it a step further, would be the perfect dream opening partnership.
 
M

ma1978

International Debutant
At this level you are completely splitting hairs. Anyone who says that Marshall is better than McGrath or Hadlee or Akram or… is just expressing personal preferences. There’s zero objective case. Personally I rate Hadlee as the ultimate lone warrior but there’s no science to that and anyone who pretends this is objective is out to lunch.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
ma1978 said:
At this level you are completely splitting hairs. Anyone who says that Marshall is better than McGrath or Hadlee or Akram or… is just expressing personal preferences. There’s zero objective case. Personally I rate Hadlee as the ultimate lone warrior but there’s no science to that and anyone who pretends this is objective is out to lunch.
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Let me finetune your point.

I think when it comes to the top bunch of bats and pacers, it really depends on what you prioritize that makes that player greater. It's about the criteria you use. That's where preferences comes in.

If I just cared just about record only, I might have put McGrath ahead of Marshall. But knowing Marshalls pace and skillsets, I prefer him.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
ma1978 said:
At this level you are completely splitting hairs. Anyone who says that Marshall is better than McGrath or Hadlee or Akram or… is just expressing personal preferences. There’s zero objective case. Personally I rate Hadlee as the ultimate lone warrior but there’s no science to that and anyone who pretends this is objective is out to lunch.
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So how is in my mind not a personal preference?

And yes, Marshall was objectively better than Akram. The numbers speak for themselves.

Maco also had a skillet that was basically unmatched outside of a couple bolwers in history. That combined with his record home and away and in all conditions, plus no minnows, places him ahead for me.

Is that allowed?
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
kyear2 said:
No doubt "in my mind" that Marshall and McGrath are the best two ever.
And to take it a step further, would be the perfect dream opening partnership.
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Yeah but those maximalist statements are where you start losing objectivity. You start from a conclusion and then retrace your steps to grab at any shred of evidence (ATG lists, etc.) to build your case rather than one set of criteria.

If you just stated that McGrath is a favorite and you want him up there with Marshall for ceremonial reasons ('he was a winner', etc) there wouldn't be an issue.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
kyear2 said:
So how is in my mind not a personal preference?

And yes, Marshall was objectively better than Akram. The numbers speak for themselves.

Maco also had a skillet that was basically unmatched outside of a couple bolwers in history. That combined with his record home and away and in all conditions, plus no minnows, places him ahead for me.

Is that allowed?
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Yeah but McGrath and Hadlee might be better. Do you accept that?
 
H

HouHsiaoHsien

International Debutant
subshakerz said:
Let me finetune your point.

I think when it comes to the top bunch of bats and pacers, it really depends on what you prioritize that makes that player greater. It's about the criteria you use. That's where preferences comes in.

If I just cared just about record only, I might have put McGrath ahead of Marshall. But knowing Marshalls pace and skillsets, I prefer him.
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Record wise also Marshall had the most destructive peak bar Imran(like we take Viv’s short term peak as an advantage for him), also Marshall is more rounded cause Mcgrath is not that impressive in SC, and Marshall is well rounded in terms of SR, econ and average than most pacers. Mcgarth’s biggest argument is longevity and that he played against sides with somewhat better quality. So purely based on record also, you can make a convincing argument for Marshall.
 
A

Arachnodouche

International Captain
HouHsiaoHsien said:
I feel you dude. MBA 1st term is like hell, and whenever I return to this site, there are 2 new massively long Subs-Kyear arguments
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Don't you guys have debates and group discussions? Could pick up a few pointers from these two on how to make the other party see your point of view. Or not :clown:.
 
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