let’s remember some guys

[RossTaylorsBox]

Luke Woodcock got picked in a World Cup squad and bowled in a quarter final against South Africa.

 

[SteveNZ]

What happened to Mark Craig? First (still only?) player to hit the first ball he faced in Test cricket for 6. Was in the last New Zealand Test side to tour England, and I was in the ground to see him hit a not-particularly-majestic-but-totally-fine 40-odd not out under grey skies at Headingley. He took some wickets sometimes. He wasn't a world class spinner but he was a guy. Then at some point that I can't remember he was dropped for a succession of similarly not-world-class NZ spinners. Not-world-class spinners who didn't hit their first balls faced in Test cricket for 6. Can anyone honestly say, hand on heart that that was the right move? Probably. But what happened to him, why did he fall so far down the pecking order of lovably ineffective NZ Test spinners?

He's a wonderful story, Mark Craig. Top order batsman at junior grades, did bowl offies but not with any seriousness. With no word of a lie, would have been 4th choice off-spinner (that's off-spinner, not spinner in general) in his club side in the mid 2000s. Preferred bowling seam up and when called on would generally do that. I think it was around this time he got hit with chronic fatigue syndrome as well and could hardly get out of bed. Then worked with Dipak Patel on his spin bowling and moved to Otago...and the rest is history. I remember being absolutely blown away that he was a FC bowler, then obviously that he became a Test player, then one that contributed greatly (for a short period of time). MoM on debut v the Windies, 10-for v Pakistan, a batting average of 36, and hands like fly paper in the slips. He was a massively skilled bowler. Big hands, could rip it,tall, got a lot of drift, had all the attributes. Like Flem said, unfortunately ran into a rampant Australia and lost a bit of confidence from there. Injuries eventually curtailed his career.

 

[SteveNZ]

Luke Woodcock got picked in a World Cup squad and bowled in a quarter final against South Africa.

Andy McKay got flown out late to that World Cup and bowled in a semi-final, where he took 1-37 off 9.5, including Sangakkara's wicket.

 

[SteveNZ]

This is such a good thread. Has Brad Williams been mentioned?

 

[TheJediBrah]

He's a wonderful story, Mark Craig. Top order batsman at junior grades, did bowl offies but not with any seriousness. With no word of a lie, would have been 4th choice off-spinner (that's off-spinner, not spinner in general) in his club side in the mid 2000s. Preferred bowling seam up and when called on would generally do that. I think it was around this time he got hit with chronic fatigue syndrome as well and could hardly get out of bed. Then worked with Dipak Patel on his spin bowling and moved to Otago...and the rest is history. I remember being absolutely blown away that he was a FC bowler, then obviously that he became a Test player, then one that contributed greatly (for a short period of time). MoM on debut v the Windies, 10-for v Pakistan, a batting average of 36, and hands like fly paper in the slips. He was a massively skilled bowler. Big hands, could rip it,tall, got a lot of drift, had all the attributes. Like Flem said, unfortunately ran into a rampant Australia and lost a bit of confidence from there. Injuries eventually curtailed his career.

When I saw him he bowled like someone who should be the 4th choice off-spinner for his club tbh

 

[SteveNZ]

When I saw him he bowled like someone who should be the 4th choice off-spinner for his club tbh

That's right, he did bowl like that in Australia at times. Or at least not as well as he did in these Tests:

WI vs NZ Cricket Scorecard, , 1st Test at Kingston, June 08 - 11, 2014

Get cricket scorecard of 1st Test, WI vs NZ, New Zealand tour of West Indies 2014 at Sabina Park, Kingston, Jamaica dated June 08 - 11, 2014.

www.espncricinfo.com

NZ vs PAK Cricket Scorecard, 3rd Test at Sharjah, November 26 - 30, 2014

Get cricket scorecard of 3rd Test, NZ vs PAK, New Zealand tour of United Arab Emirates 2014/15 at Sharjah Cricket Stadium dated November 26 - 30, 2014.

www.espncricinfo.com

NZ vs SL Cricket Scorecard, 2nd Test at Wellington, January 03 - 07, 2015

Get cricket scorecard of 2nd Test, NZ vs SL, Sri Lanka in New Zealand Test Series 2014/15 at Basin Reserve, Wellington dated January 03 - 07, 2015.

www.espncricinfo.com

ENG vs NZ Cricket Scorecard, , 2nd Investec Test at Leeds, May 29 - June 02, 2015

Get cricket scorecard of 2nd Investec Test, ENG vs NZ, New Zealand tour of England 2015 at Headingley, Leeds dated May 29 - June 02, 2015.

www.espncricinfo.com

You should've watched those ones too.

 

[TheJediBrah]

That's right, he did bowl like that in Australia at times. Or at least not as well as he did in these Tests:

WI vs NZ Cricket Scorecard, , 1st Test at Kingston, June 08 - 11, 2014

Get cricket scorecard of 1st Test, WI vs NZ, New Zealand tour of West Indies 2014 at Sabina Park, Kingston, Jamaica dated June 08 - 11, 2014.

www.espncricinfo.com

NZ vs PAK Cricket Scorecard, 3rd Test at Sharjah, November 26 - 30, 2014

Get cricket scorecard of 3rd Test, NZ vs PAK, New Zealand tour of United Arab Emirates 2014/15 at Sharjah Cricket Stadium dated November 26 - 30, 2014.

www.espncricinfo.com

NZ vs SL Cricket Scorecard, 2nd Test at Wellington, January 03 - 07, 2015

Get cricket scorecard of 2nd Test, NZ vs SL, Sri Lanka in New Zealand Test Series 2014/15 at Basin Reserve, Wellington dated January 03 - 07, 2015.

www.espncricinfo.com

ENG vs NZ Cricket Scorecard, , 2nd Investec Test at Leeds, May 29 - June 02, 2015

Get cricket scorecard of 2nd Investec Test, ENG vs NZ, New Zealand tour of England 2015 at Headingley, Leeds dated May 29 - June 02, 2015.

www.espncricinfo.com

You should've watched those ones too.

Yes I know he had a bad tour, wasn't trying to suggest he was always that bad. You're reading into things a bit much.

 

[Dan]

Craig was the epitome of a guy who had great fundamentals but was unfortnately always short of the volume of overs to have fine-tuned his action and developed the consistency. Shame, really, because when it went right he was a solid hand. Had the tools to (in theory) succeed in Australia too, imo, being fairly bounce-centric.

 

[SteveNZ]

Yes I know he had a bad tour, wasn't trying to suggest he was always that bad. You're reading into things a bit much.

Haha I know, no real level of seriousness here. Play on.

Craig was the epitome of a guy who had great fundamentals but was unfortnately always short of the volume of overs to have fine-tuned his action and developed the consistency. Shame, really, because when it went right he was a solid hand. Had the tools to (in theory) succeed in Australia too, imo, being fairly bounce-centric.

This is a pretty good take actually, not one I'd really thought about even though I know his story well.

 

[Smudge]

As a spinner who tried to get better on the club cricket pitches of Dunedin, I can confirm it's no fun trying to hone your craft in the deep south. I reckon at least a third of Dunedin senior club games each season are on artificial turf and the grass surfaces were generally bowler friendly or low and slow. Frankly, I'm surprised any spinners have come out of Otago in recent years.

 

[SteveNZ]

As a spinner who tried to get better on the club cricket pitches of Dunedin, I can confirm it's no fun trying to hone your craft in the deep south. I reckon at least a third of Dunedin senior club games each season are on artificial turf and the grass surfaces were generally bowler friendly or low and slow. Frankly, I'm surprised any spinners have come out of Otago in recent years.

This isn't dissimilar to how Auckland club cricket is, at least in Mark's time. Although he was quite lethal on the bouncy astro we used for trainings. What Dan said is so true though, Mark missed out on many years of honing his craft which is quite likely to have contributed to his inconsistency with length particularly. Ajaz is probably going through similar battles, albeit his pitch map is a bit more consistent as a left-arm spinner who doesn't turn it prodigiously, compared to Mark as an offie who tries to rip it.

 

[Smudge]

If you don't mind, Steve, I'm subtly trying to provide excuses as to why I never made it as a great leg spinner.

 

[Gnske]

Craig was the epitome of a guy who had great fundamentals but was unfortnately always short of the volume of overs to have fine-tuned his action and developed the consistency. Shame, really, because when it went right he was a solid hand. Had the tools to (in theory) succeed in Australia too, imo, being fairly bounce-centric.

He was literally a poor man's Nathan Lyon without hair or a shred of nuance. The only fundamental he knew was the building blocks of raw sewage.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

Craig was the epitome of a guy who had great fundamentals but was unfortnately always short of the volume of overs to have fine-tuned his action and developed the consistency. Shame, really, because when it went right he was a solid hand.

Sounds a lot like Moeen too.

 

[SteveNZ]

If you don't mind, Steve, I'm subtly trying to provide excuses as to why I never made it as a great leg spinner.

Haha! The odds were stacked against you sir.

 

[Moss]

One 'guy' who seems to be remembered as mediocrity in India is Mohammad Kaif. Was always in and around the side without being a fixture from 2001-06 and discarded for good after that (TBF he never stood a chance of getting back in during the Dhoni era, there was way too much quality).

But during 2002-03 he (along with Yuvraj) was a genuine tonic as far as the one-day side was concerned - super fit, great fielder, excellent runner between the wickets, able to accelerate the score when the situation demanded, capable of batting anywhere from 3 to 7. He and Yuvraj did a fair bit to give Indian ODI cricket a 21st century makeover.

 

[Dan]

Sounds a lot like Moeen too.

Yeah, I wanted to consider Moeen slightly different on first read of this, but I think you're right. To me, Moeen's a great example of how giving a very good part-timer more overs does not an all-rounder make (see also: Marcus North). In the context of what Moeen was asked to do vs what he was capable of doing at the start of his Test career, he's performed well above the level he should have imo.

 

[morgieb]

Yeah, I wanted to consider Moeen slightly different on first read of this, but I think you're right. To me, Moeen's a great example of how giving a very good part-timer more overs does not an all-rounder make (see also: Marcus North). In the context of what Moeen was asked to do vs what he was capable of doing at the start of his Test career, he's performed well above the level he should have imo.

Marcus North never had a series like Moeen did against India or South Africa though.

 

[Dan]

Yeah, Moeen and North kinda comparable in that the role they were asked to perform was quite different to the role they'd played at FC level. Moeen had a lot longer to adapt to the role, and did a better job of adapting to the role (probably helped by mostly not batting at six while doing it).

 

[TheJediBrah]

Yeah, I wanted to consider Moeen slightly different on first read of this, but I think you're right. To me, Moeen's a great example of how giving a very good part-timer more overs does not an all-rounder make (see also: Marcus North). In the context of what Moeen was asked to do vs what he was capable of doing at the start of his Test career, he's performed well above the level he should have imo.

Moeen is a weird one because he was somehow successful against India, who are supposed to be good players of spin but woeful against Australia who are traditionally very bad players of spin.