Lara Disappionted over pontings comment

[luckyeddie]

Luckeddie I think you should go for Dopyeddie, you have provided nothing that I havent allready shown Ponting to have done.

Methinks you flatter your big brother. If he EVER turns out to be anything like the captain Worrell was, people with far better credentials than you will be trumpeting that fact from the rooftops.

It was very clever how you took my examples of the captaincy of other people and turned them around to use them as if they were about Ricky Ponting. It just proves how interested you are in the opinions of others, I suppose.

Dopyeddie is right - I have spent several hours debating non-issues with someone possessing all the innate charm and redeeming features of you. I must be stupid.

 

[marc71178]

Luckeddie I think you should go for Dopyeddie, you have provided nothing that I havent allready shown Ponting to have done.

In which case you'll be happy to provide the examples (as Eddie has done) of each of those instances.

If you can't then I suggest you apologise (and while you're at it show some respect to other members of the forum)

 

[marc71178]

Hussians leg side field is a negative tactic to slow the scoring, used mainly in grade cricket because the bowling is not very accurate.

It did what was required, frustrated SRT into being stumped.

1) Ponting was the captain of a little island called Tasmainia and he got all the states together and called them AUSTRALIA and look at them now.

You mean he inherited a team.

3) Ponting was thought by many to be the finest captain of the last 50 years. He attributes his success to one thing only - getting the best out of Warne.

Erm, how many wickets has Waugh and Taylor got out of Warne?

And please tell me who considers him the finest captain of the last 50 years, he's not even the finest in the present day!

4) Ponting told Taylor to bat.

And you can prove this of course?

 

[chicane]

Bad example. They lost. The captain isn't there to just cause batting collapses and look pretty doing it.

How you win and how you lose are inconsequential; it's that it happens that is important.

India managed an impossible fightback, and Ganguly lead by example taking crucial wickets. It was so close that India would've won but for Brett Lee's six, all that after Gilchrist's berzerk assault in the beginning. Australia are the superior team, and yet the game was an even contest. Sure it's the result that matters most, but still Gangus's captaincy in that game was superb.

 

[Scallywag]

3. Mike Brearley was thought by many to be the finest captain of the last 50 years. He attributes his success to one thing only - getting the best out of Ian Botham.His technique was simple - he put his arm around his shoulder and told him how great he was, and how the Australians were terrified of him.

OK lets take them one by one: Explain how this example shows Brearley to be anything but cuddly.

 

[Scallywag]

2. 2nd test against England, Lords, 1963. West Indies 1-0 up in the series, England fighting back. Final over of the game, 2 balls to go, England require 6 to win, the last pair Gubby Allen and Colin Cowdrey at the wicket (Cowdrey with a broken arm). As Wes Hall's about to start his run-up, Worrell comes over to him and has a chat with the bowler. All he's actually saying to Wes is "don't bowl any no-balls, we are one up in the series". Allen manages to keep out the last two balls but cannot score, thus ensuring the draw. West Indies eventually win the series 3-1.

And the best part about this example is?

 

[Scallywag]

5. Take any of the recent three tests between the West Indies and England - and just look at the way that Vaughan applied pressure to the new batsmen. The almost uncanny parallels between the first three tests were down to one thing and one thing only - knowing when to apply pressure.


Remind me again exactaly what Vaughn did that was special.

 

[Scallywag]

6. Just ask Brian Lara whether he likes facing Darren Gough. A few years ago, almost every time Lara came out to bat, Hussain would immediately bring Gough back into the attack, no matter what the state of play. He got him out in the series five times for single figures.

So Hussian learns a trick that most captains have used for decades.

 

[Scallywag]

Having already paid lip-service to the innovative field-settings of Nasser Hussain and the way Fleming uses his bowlers, I'll give you a few more examples of why captaincy isn't just winning the toss and deciding the batting order.

Like I said this is the biggest joke, all you have provided is Flemming was eccentric and Hussian used a legside field.

 

[Scallywag]

4. Old Trafford, 1997. There has been overnight rain, the pitch is really green and looks as though it's going to seam a lot. It's also quite soft. The obvious thing to do is field, yet Mark Taylor chose to bat. It's a real struggle at first, everyone thinks Taylor's gone mad. The aussies eventually make 235 with Steve Waugh playing (IMO) his greatest-ever innings. It's decisive - on the second day, Warne exploits the bowlers' footmarks (remember I said it was soft?) and England are skittled for 160 or so. The Aussies make the most of the best of the wicket (day 3, morning of day 4), bat the game out of sight. Then England are bowled out again by lunch on day 5 - job done. The way the wicket dried, if he had chosen to bowl, the outcome might have been different.


Batting against Englands bowlers on the first day is called attacking cricket and thats perfectly normal not extraordinary captaincy.

 

[luckyeddie]

Scallywag, you truly are a troll of the highest order.

I praise you on being able to yank my chain for so long.

 

[DJ]

Sure it's the result that matters most, but still Gangus's captaincy in that game was superb.

What did he do?

 

[marc71178]

Batting against Englands bowlers on the first day is called attacking cricket and thats perfectly normal not extraordinary captaincy.

I could quite easily have gone for other posts, but this one really makes me laugh.

When this was initially quoted as an example of good captaincy by Taylor, you told us that Ponting told him to do it.

Changed your mind on that have you?

 

[Gaijin-san]

I could quite easily have gone for other posts, but this one really makes me laugh.

When this was initially quoted as an example of good captaincy by Taylor, you told us that Ponting told him to do it.

Changed your mind on that have you?

Given the other stuff that Ponting did according to that post, I'm surprised you took it seriously.

 

[luckyeddie]

I could quite easily have gone for other posts, but this one really makes me laugh.

When this was initially quoted as an example of good captaincy by Taylor, you told us that Ponting told him to do it.

Changed your mind on that have you?

Not on his own, he didn't. His big brother Ricky told him to.

 

[bennyr]

In the ODI's in the VB series, Ganguly did a great job running Australia so close ( except for the finals ) without any experienced bowlers .

In the first match , he did lead by example . He would have won India the match were it not for a stupid run out.

Second and third matches were great examples of good captaincy . australia were running away with both matches...but with his limited resources and excellent plotting, Australia were made to collapse in both matches from very strong positions. one match was won by India while the third required a six off the last over ( a situation which was unimaginable halfway through the aussie innings....they had the match pretty much in their pockets ).

Despite being a great fan of Ganguly, I really can't agree with this. At times during last summer I thought his bowling changes were bordering on inept and his field placings were not great (however, John Wright has to take some of the rap for that).

Where I think Ganguly is fantastic is the leadership aspect of captaincy that you referred to earlier, and his ability to get a psychological advantage over the opposition.

 

[THE G-TRAIN]

Scallywag (ricky), let me say, i think you are the king of cricket web. Everything that Luckeddie comes up with you critique 100% correctly. I would agree with luck on 1 point that he brought up, which was about taylors decision to bat. Whilst i also agree with your comment that it is the norm to go out and attack England from the start, This was back in the day when England actually had a chance against Australia, so Taylor was actually taking a bit of a risk. As for the other captaincy points he bought up...they sucked. Seriously, my grandmother would have walked over to Wes Hall and told him not to bowl no balls. Speaking of whom, She would be about your age luckeddie am i right? maybe you 2 could talk cricket whilst getting hip surgery after your latest fall. jkn. Seriously Luckeddie, you seem to come up with points which dont show any great captaincy skills, yet when someone like suggests that they were nothing more than standard, simple captaincy decisions, you have to get personal and talk **** about the person because they (rightly) dont agree. I would have thought that someone of your age and class would have more maturity than that, you big staff member, you

 

[krkode]

Seriously Luckeddie, you seem to come up with points which dont show any great captaincy skills

And winning yourself matches with an inherited team is great? That's like saying Alexander's son was the real great one because he had this great empire without having to fight for it. (by the way, it's just a random example. I don't know if Alexander the great even had a son...whatever. You should get my point. Otherwise you're wrong.)

yet when someone like suggests that they were nothing more than standard, simple captaincy decisions, you have to get personal and talk **** about the person because they (rightly) dont agree.

Don't accuse Dopey...er...I mean, LuckyEddie of talking *star**star* about a person! :rolleyes:

 

[THE G-TRAIN]

And winning yourself matches with an inherited team is great? That's like saying Alexander's son was the real great one because he had this great empire without having to fight for it. (by the way, it's just a random example. I don't know if Alexander the great even had a son...whatever. You should get my point. Otherwise you're wrong.)



Don't accuse Dopey...er...I mean, LuckyEddie of talking *star**star* about a person! :rolleyes:

Where did i say that winning matches with an inherited team is great???? Oh wait..i DIDNT! Luckeddie said that worrell came up to hall and said dont bowl any no balls at a crucial point in the match. Oh wow, what a guy! I know that worrell was a a fantastic captain and a great cricketer, but this point hardly suggests it. Thats all i was saying. I never mentioned Ponting, or the acquisition of a great team now did i! geez

As for 'accusing' dopey of getting all personal, all you have to do is look at the last few pages and you can see it. I dont really care but i would like to think that a senior staff member could go a few more rounds of arguing the point before throwing those weak verbal punches.

 

[THE G-TRAIN]

Someone spiked the punch