KP Out

[tooextracool]

Disagree v strongly with this. If Pietersen walks out in front of a bus tomorrow he'll still be the first Englishman (yeah, yeah, I know...) to average 50+ over his career since dear old Kenny Barrington.

I'm of the opinion he'll end up as the highest English test run maker of all-time and will end with an average in excess of 50. Can't call that unfulfilled, surely?

averaging 50 looks good on paper, but we are also talking about an era of flatter pitches and worse bowling attacks which he has had the opportunity to gorge himself on. Given his talent, I would venture to think that he would like to end his career averaging somewhere close to what Ponting is averaging, somewhere close to the mid 50s.

For the record, even though Pietersen has a higher average and will undoubtedly end up with more runs, I would rank Graham Thorpe as a much better player than him if all things stay the same (i.e. Pietersen doesn't step up his game) until the end of his career. Thorpe btw, from 2001 onwards, a time period that is widely considered to have seen the introduction of flatter tracks and less effective bowling, Thorpe was averaging 55+. This despite all the personal and injury issues that he was carrying on his shoulder for part of it. There is no doubt for me that Pietersen is undoubtedly the more talented player, but I suspect that he will still end up with an inferior career to that of Graham Thorpe.

 

[Uppercut]

worser

Sledger's spinning in his... computer chair.

 

[tooextracool]

Sledger's spinning in his... computer chair.

edited. Cannot fathom how I used that.

 

[oitoitoi]

Disagree v strongly with this. If Pietersen walks out in front of a bus tomorrow he'll still be the first Englishman (yeah, yeah, I know...) to average 50+ over his career since dear old Kenny Barrington.

I'm of the opinion he'll end up as the highest English test run maker of all-time and will end with an average in excess of 50. Can't call that unfulfilled, surely?

I am quite willing to put a bet on that dear KP will not average 50+ or maybe 51+ if he plays till he's 35 (like he's said he wants to). I'm saying this based on the careers of similar players, many of the players who finished with averages around that point averaged 55+ when they were at Pieteresen's curent point in their careers, age catches up with us all and eventually his reflexes and footwork will slow a touch and the faults in his technique will be exposed a bit more, and judging by his rather gung ho attitude to batting I think he'll find this especially tough to deal with. Look at Ponting, he's still a fantastic player but his stats are considerably below his career mark since 07ish. Tendulkar is basically the only one who's really lasted (Lara did too to an extent) past 34ish in the modern era, and that's down to his perfect technique and willingness to adapt. Even the great Viv faded considerably by the end and he's not an entirely different player. Hmmm highest ever England run scorer, he'll need 4200+ runs over the next 6 years which is tough but doable, I reckon he'll get the most hundreds by a distance but fall just short of Gooch (injuries will throw a spanner in the works), unless he pushes himself past 35 and plays for the record.

 

[marc71178]

Richard, surely the fact that pretty much everyone has disagreed with you would indicate that perhaps he's not clearly the better batsman?

No, it's just that everyone else is clearly wrong and don't know what they're talking about.

 

[Jono]

That just wound the clock back

 

[Richard]

You'd have thought with 2 years off people'd get tired of the same ridiculously over-used put-downs, but no, not to be.

 

[Richard]

I am quite willing to put a bet on that dear KP will not average 50+ or maybe 51+ if he plays till he's 35 (like he's said he wants to). I'm saying this based on the careers of similar players, many of the players who finished with averages around that point averaged 55+ when they were at Pieteresen's curent point in their careers, age catches up with us all and eventually his reflexes and footwork will slow a touch and the faults in his technique will be exposed a bit more, and judging by his rather gung ho attitude to batting I think he'll find this especially tough to deal with. Look at Ponting, he's still a fantastic player but his stats are considerably below his career mark since 07ish. Tendulkar is basically the only one who's really lasted (Lara did too to an extent) past 34ish in the modern era, and that's down to his perfect technique and willingness to adapt. Even the great Viv faded considerably by the end and he's not an entirely different player. Hmmm highest ever England run scorer, he'll need 4200+ runs over the next 6 years which is tough but doable, I reckon he'll get the most hundreds by a distance but fall just short of Gooch (injuries will throw a spanner in the works), unless he pushes himself past 35 and plays for the record.

Batsmen would generally hope to be hitting their peak at 29-30-31-32, and far more of them than not do so. It's far from unrealistic to hope for Pietersen's average to rise like yeast in the next few years - whether it happens we wait to see of course, but it's a perfectly acceptable expectation.

As for Viv Richards, he was nearly 37 by the time he begun to fade in 1989 - a long way off for Pietersen yet.

 

[Burgey]

Whenever I see this thread title, I expect the first post to be "bowled, playing across a full one".

OT, wouldn't think there's any reason, injury aside, that Pietersen wouldn't peak at roughly the same age as everyone else - late 20s to early 30s.

 

[Richard]

There's no particular reason to expect otherwise, and that's why I'm relatively hopeful about his prospects in the next few years. However, occasionally players peak either earlier or later than the norm - Sachin Tendulkar's peak, for example, came at 23-24. Graham Gooch's came at 36-40.

 

[inbox24]

Think this might be a blessing in disguise for England. Bell to come in and make a few solid contributions and maybe even the odd century.

 

[oitoitoi]

Well the thing is with Bell is that he could be okish, especially against this struggling aussie attack when things are going well, but if he come's in at 40/2 or 70/3 I'm not so sure. Basically I think it just makes the side more prone to collapses. Personally I think Moore or Carberry were more worthy of a place.

 

[four_or_six]

Bell really is underrated. Test average of 41 and only a year ago that he got 190 against South Africa. Sure, he's not the best player ever, and he's didn't have a good 2008, but he's not that bad.

 

[pasag]

Pretty crap, tbf.

 

[jondavluc]

Bell really is underrated. Test average of 41 and only a year ago that he got 190 against South Africa. Sure, he's not the best player ever, and he's didn't have a good 2008, but he's not that bad.

Awta

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

You'd have thought with 2 years off people'd get tired of the same ridiculously over-used put-downs, but no, not to be.

You'd think after twenty-four years you'd have shot yourself, but no, not to be.

 

[Richard]

Personally I think Moore or Carberry were more worthy of a place.

Not in place of Pietersen. In place of Strauss or Cook, yeah.

 

[Richard]

You'd think after twenty-four years you'd have shot yourself, but no, not to be.

You might think that, but in all honesty, not many others would.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

You might think that, but in all honesty, not many others would.

One day.

 

[Richard]

Bell really is underrated. Test average of 41 and only a year ago that he got 190 against South Africa. Sure, he's not the best player ever, and he's didn't have a good 2008, but he's not that bad.

Bell has only really ever scored runs when the going is easy. He isn't a terrible batsman, for certain, but he's good only at ramming home the advantage, and usually on flattish decks, and he's decent at hinting at wresting the advantage while failing to do so completely. But he has never once by himself made a big, really notable difference to a Test. For someone who's played 50-odd games, that's poor.