Kapil vs Kohli

[Godard]

i have given Virat’s peak stats to compare with Sachins . Virat has a clear 10 increase in SR, and his era adjusted of both will be similar. I suggest you quote actual stats, not only comparisons please.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

There is slightly more difference between Jaisurya and Sachin, than Sachin and Anwar in the 90s.( Jaisurya: 90. Sachin:86. Anwar: 83). Even De Silva’s 82.

1994-1999
Sachin 90, Jayasuriya 94
Desilva and Anwar 82

 

[Godard]

1994-1999
Sachin 90, Jayasuriya 94
Desilva and Anwar 82

1990-97: Sachin 82, De Silva 85. This is a bigger portion of the 90s. Now you can Sachin hadn’t grown into role as owner till 1994. I can say De Silva’s peak was over 1996, so it is better to take the whole decade. If you can take selective stats to make player A look better than player B, opposite is also possible.

 

[Godard]

And if you take take 1994-1999 Sachin, Kohli 2016-20 is still 10 ahead of him on SR, era adjusted will be similar,

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

i have given Virat’s peak stats to compare with Sachins . Virat has a clear 10 increase in SR, and his era adjusted of both will be similar. I suggest you quote actual stats, not only comparisons please.

Sachin's SR was world's highest during 3 year period between 1993 and 1995 and 4 year period between 1998 and 2001.. Tell me when Kohli came remotely close to this.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

1990-97: Sachin 82, De Silva 85. This is a bigger portion of the 90s. Now you can Sachin hadn’t grown into role as owner till 1994. I can say De Silva’s peak was over 1996, so it is better to take the whole decade. If you can take selective stats to make player A look better than player B, opposite is also possible.

You are joking.. Right?
Sachin was easily the most aggressive batsman of 90s ( Bar Jayasuriya )

Until 1996 WC, no opener in the history of ODI cricket had a strike rate above 79 ( including the likes of Jayasuriya and Srikanth ) except Sachin.. His Strike Rate was 94 which was galaxies ahead of the rest.

 

[Godard]

Fine Sachin was a pioneer when it came to ODI cricket of 90s, but still you have too like at his entire career. Post 2000, Sachin was still a great ODI batsmen, but not amongst the most aggressive by far. If the 1990s Sachin is ahead of Virat in terms of SR, then the 2000s Sachin is slightly below Virat’s SR also. So overall Sachin is ahead in terms of SR due to being a pioneer which Virat never was, but Virat was never as far from the world’s most aggressive batsmen post 2011 like Sachin was post 2000s. So it is not like Virat is leagues behind Sachin in SR arena, behind tho. Anyways at this stage I do not believe Virat is a better ODI cricketer than Sachin, but his freakishly high average of 75 for 5000+ runs between 2016-2020 at an SR close to 100, is the most freakish ODI run ever, and puts Kohli at 3 for me in ATG batsmen ODI list.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Fine Sachin was a pioneer when it came to ODI cricket of 90s, but still you have too like at his entire career. Post 2000, Sachin was still a great ODI batsmen, but not amongst the most aggressive by far. If the 1990s Sachin is ahead of Virat in terms of SR, then the 2000s Sachin is slightly below Virat’s SR also. So overall Sachin is ahead in terms of SR due to being a pioneer which Virat never was, but Virat was never as far from the world’s most aggressive batsmen post 2011 like Sachin was post 2000s. So it is not like Virat is leagues behind Sachin in SR arena, behind tho. Anyways at this stage I do not believe Virat is a better ODI cricketer than Sachin, but his freakishly high average of 75 for 5000+ runs between 2016-2020 at an SR close to 100, is the most freakish ODI run ever, and puts Kohli at 3 for me in ATG batsmen ODI list.

ABDV had better stats, number of matches is less because he was not playing for India.

2000-2009 Sachin will be ranked among top 15 most aggressive batsmen of top 50 run scorers for the period.
Kohli's ranking in 2010-2019 will be similar to post 2000 Sachin.. And no way comparable to 90s Sachin.

Had Sachin and Kohli played in the same era, Sachin's SR would be at least 10% better than Kohli's.

 

[Godard]

ABDV had better stats, number of matches is less because he was not playing for India.

2000-2009 Sachin will be ranked among top 15 most aggressive batsmen of top 50 run scorers for the period.
Kohli's ranking in 2010-2019 will be similar to post 2000 Sachin.. And no way comparable to 90s Sachin.

Had Sachin and Kohli played in the same era, Sachin's SR would be at least 10% better than Kohli's.

ABDV doesn’t have a better average than Kohli, nor did he in terms of run accumulation have a better run than Kohli. He is more destructive and better in WCs, but SR is also he batted lower quite more than Kohli. See Sobers and Tendulkar averaged 60 for 16-17 years, but Tendulkar played many more matches than Sobers in those years hence he is ranked higher in the consistency department. ABD as you said in his peak years played lesser matches than Kohli, and averaged similar or slightly less. Kohli at his peak averaged from 2010-2020: 60 for 236 matches. ABD averaged the same from 2008-18 for 159 matches(77 less matches). So in terms of run accumulation and average and average by country(Kohli averages 47+ in all countries, AB has sub 40 average in Eng and one more country). In terms of SR, AB’s is better only because he batted at 5 far more than Kohli. His SR at 4 is similar to Kohli’s, 98 compared to 94, or slightly better.

 

[Godard]

Also Kohli’s peaks are more freakish, hitting 5000+ runs between 2016-2020 at an average of 77, SR close to 100(and he bats at 3, so that is quite quite good). And between 2016-19, he scored 4700+ runs at 80, scoring at a SR close to 100. Best AB peak is averaging 69 between 2012-15, 3880 runs striking at 113(and he bats at 4 mostly, but quite a number of times at 5 also).

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

ABDV doesn’t have a better average than Kohli, nor did he in terms of run accumulation have a better run than Kohli. He is more destructive and better in WCs, but SR is also he batted lower quite more than Kohli. See Sobers and Tendulkar averaged 60 for 16-17 years, but Tendulkar played many more matches than Sobers in those years hence he is ranked higher in the consistency department. ABD as you said in his peak years played lesser matches than Kohli, and averaged similar or slightly less. Kohli at his peak averaged from 2010-2020: 60 for 236 matches. ABD averaged the same from 2008-18 for 159 matches(77 less matches). So in terms of run accumulation and average and average by country(Kohli averages 47+ in all countries, AB has sub 40 average in Eng and one more country). In terms of SR, AB’s is better only because he batted at 5 far more than Kohli. His SR at 4 is similar to Kohli’s, 98 compared to 94, or slightly better.

AB, Sachin, Viv and Kohli averages are on same ball park, but first 3 were more aggressive and that's not even arguable.

If you believe, SR difference between AB and Kohli is due to Batting order.. Thats laughable.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Also Kohli’s peaks are more freakish, hitting 5000+ runs between 2016-2020 at an average of 77, SR close to 100(and he bats at 3, so that is quite quite good). And between 2016-19, he scored 4700+ runs at 80, scoring at a SR close to 100. Best AB peak is averaging 69 between 2012-15, 3880 runs striking at 113(and he bats at 4 mostly, but quite a number of times at 5 also).

Kohli's peak came in more easier period of batting.

 

[Godard]

Kohli's peak came in more easier period of batting.

Little difference between 2016-20 and 2012-15 please

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Little difference between 2016-20 and 2012-15 please

2010-2015
ABDV averaged 69 at 110+
No one else managed 55 avg among top 50 run scorers.

2016-2020
7 batsmen ( including Kohli ) averaged above 55, three of them managed 60+

Thats a big difference

 

[Godard]

AB, Sachin, Viv and Kohli averages are on same ball park, but first 3 were more aggressive and that's not even arguable.

If you believe, SR difference between AB and Kohli is due to Batting order.. Thats laughable.

But the difference is because of that . Devilliers has played at 4 most often, and has an SR of 98 compared to Kohli’s SR of 94 at 3. He has played second most no of innings at 5 and has strikes at 109 there.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

But the difference is because of that . Devilliers has played at 4 most often, and has an SR of 98 compared to Kohli’s SR of 94 at 3. He has played second most no of innings at 5 and has strikes at 109 there.

AB's 98 SR needs to be era adjusted before comparing with Kohli's 94.

 

[Godard]

2010-2015
ABDV averaged 69 at 110+
No one else managed 55 avg among top 50 run scorers.

2016-2020
7 batsmen ( including Kohli ) averaged above 55, three of them managed 60+

Thats a big difference

But Kohli averaged 77, not 55 or 60. Can you name these batsmen and their averages with runs. Cause during Deviliers time: Dhoni, Taylor, Sangakkara and Amla(from what I found out till now maybe there could be more) average 54, 50, 53 and 53. If those batsmen in Kohli’s era averaged below 62, like Babar Azam averages 57, there is a 15 run difference between their average and Kohli’s. And also on what basis did you take 2010-15 and 2016-20 as separate eras of batting, except the average of other batsmen in that era. Was there some rule introduced or removed in 2015 that made batting easier? Also why take 2010 as the start of AB’s peak? He was also averaging 50+ in 2009, and if you take 2009-15 averages, AB averages 66, and Dhoni 57. Plus if you go by this logic, I can pick 2016-19, and say no one averages close to 80 that Kohli does, and remotely near 94 that Kohli does from 2016-18.

 

[Godard]

But Kohli averaged 77, not 55 or 60. Can you name these batsmen and their averages with runs. Cause during Deviliers time: Dhoni, Taylor and Amla(from what I found out till now maybe there could be more) average 54, 51and 53. If those batsmen in Kohli’s era averaged below 62, like Babar Azam averages 57, there is a 15 run difference between their average and Kohli’s. And also on what basis did you take 2010-15 and 2016-20 as separate eras of batting, except the average of other batsmen in that era. Was there some rule introduced or removed in 2015 that made batting easier? Also why take 2010 as the start of AB’s peak? He was also averaging 50+ in 2009, and if you take 2009-15 averages, AB averages 66, and Dhoni 57. Plus if you go by this logic, I can pick 2016-19, and say no one averages close to 80 that Kohli does, and remotely near 94 that Kohli does from 2016-18.

 

[Bolo.]

But the difference is because of that . Devilliers has played at 4 most often, and has an SR of 98 compared to Kohli’s SR of 94 at 3. He has played second most no of innings at 5 and has strikes at 109 there.

It's not tests. Batting is not really easier lower down in ODIs, you are just most commonly trading SR for average.

AB strikes faster at every position in the top order than Kohli. You are trying to focus on the only position where its vaguely comparable. Every other position is a massive gap.

If I said we should focus on 3, where Kohli has batted the most, and where AB strikes at 125, you would probably object to it (with good reason).

Even if you exclude 5, AB is still striking at 99. It really doesn't change much. He just strikes faster.

 

[Godard]

Even if I accept Kohli clearly in better in terms of run accumulation and average in general and while in peak form as well. For me ABD=Kohli. ABD is more destructive and better in WCs. Even if Kohli batted at 5, ABD would be be much better than him there. But you can’t determine ABD is better than Kohli in striking fast at 3, by comparing his 13 innings to Kohli’a 199.