Kallis Vs Sobers

[Blaze 18]

Too pithy for me. Didn't understand

I think that was in response to someone saying that Wasim made the ball "talk".

 

[MrIncredible]

Overall:-

414 wickets @ 23.62 and a wpm of 3.98

The decade of the 90s:-

289 wickets @ 21.45 and a wpm of 4.66

If you're comparing him to say, Ambrose who played his career in his peak, It is only fair if you analyze Akram's period for the same length of time and not add on a really long start and decline to his stats where he was still one of the best bowlers for his country but by no means an ATG bowler.

Read through a post of yours from the past. Did u really type that Curtly Ambrose was overrated??

 

[Teja.]

Read through a post of yours from the past. Did u really type that Curtly Ambrose was overrated??

The post you quoted was on Akram' stats, and Yeah, I did.

 

[akilana]

The post you quoted was on Akram' stats, and Yeah, I did.

I read that post and agree with you but you edited it.

 

[Teja.]

I read that post and agree with you but you edited it.

I did not wanna kick of an opinion war right now, So I wussed out.

I've mentioned my reasons in the past.

 

[MrIncredible]

I did not wanna kick of an opinion war right now, So I wussed out.

I've mentioned my reasons in the past.

Oh just checking. And Akram isnt?? Just asking.

 

[The Sean]

Tendulkar did not have a double hundred throughout the 90s and there was never a shadow of doubt about his greatness, even all time greatness, throughout the 90s. By the time he scored his first double hundred against a 'tough' opponent in 2004, his greatness and legendary status had already been sealed. At that point it would not have mattered if Tendulkar even picked up a cricket bat ever again before the Sydney test in 2004.

Hobbs, a very strong candidate for the top 5 batsmen of all time, has just one double hundred in his career. And it came against South Africa against an attack you would surely not classify as 'tough' at the age of 40+ years. By that time, his position as an all time batting great and pioneering batsmen had long been sealed and it would have hardly mattered if Hobbs scored a golden attack against an attack which collectively took 100 odd test wickets.

Just to clarify, I am not saying Kallis is an all time great batsman, or in the same league as Tendulkar or Sobers. I don't think he is. I just don't agree with the criteria being used for the categorization. Such retrospective benchmarking of greatness is just baffling. People who lived through the careers of Hobbs and Tendulkar always knew they were witnessing something special. The same cannot be said of Kallis, the batsman regardless if he notches up the double century against a 'tough opponent'.

Sorry, to digress the topic with my very first post. Thought it might be relevant for the Sobers and Kallis discussion as well. Retrospectively lining up numbers will never reveal the complete picture of the two players.

Ha ha, hell of a first post. Welcome.

But there does not seem to be much of a mention of Sobers' performance for World XI. Those matches were top quality cricket by all accounts. Sobers had a huge series in 1970 against England playing for the World XI. He scored more than 500 runs and took 20+ wickets in 5 tests. He was the top run scorer and wicket taker in the series,

The following year he top scored for World XI against Australia again. By this time, his bowling was decidedly starting to fade away, but he was 35+ with 18 years of cricket behind him.

Maybe not in this thread, but some of us talk about those series' quite regularly.

 

[Teja.]

Oh just checking. And Akram isnt?? Just asking.

He is, He is also a worse bowler than Ambrose. Just sayin' if you're gonna analyze Akram's stats and compare him directly to Ambrose, You might want to do it more fairly.

 

[MrIncredible]

Ok fair enough. Would never knock a fellow poster for a well reasoned opinion. Except if u were that Ikki bloke lol

 

[smash84]

Ok fair enough. Would never knock a fellow poster for a well reasoned opinion. Except if u were that Ikki bloke lol

 

[smash84]

Oh just checking. And Akram isnt?? Just asking.

Akram gets over rated probably because of his ODI bowling. He was arguably the best ODI bowler ever which seems to cloud people's judgement regarding his performance in test matches. But there is one thing that is quite amazing in his career which PEWS or someone else pointed out that he produced man of the match performances every 6 matches. That is probably the best frequency of getting Man of the Match awards by any bowler. So maybe it was that Akram would be fairly ordinary for a few matches and then turn every 6th game on its head. Maybe which is why he tends to get over-rated???? Just a theory.

 

[bagapath]

your theory is not right, in my opinion. because akram is, definitely, not over-rated. he was a match winning bowler for a long long time. will certainly be among the top 15 bowlers ever in test cricket.

 

[smash84]

your theory is not right, in my opinion. because akram is, definitely, not over-rated. he was a match winning bowler for a long long time. will certainly be among the top 15 bowlers ever in test cricket.

My theory might not be right but I think he is over-rated due to his ODI exploits. He was a very good bowler no doubt but he didn't usually nail the best batsmen of the opposition.

 

[weldone]

your theory is not right, in my opinion. because akram is, definitely, not over-rated. he was a match winning bowler for a long long time. will certainly be among the top 15 bowlers ever in test cricket.

This.

 

[bagapath]

this double hundred changes everything for me. kallis has ticked all the boxes to be ranked among the top ten batters of all time. as for this thread, only style and flair would tilt this particular argument in favor of sobers. statistically jacques kallis ia good enough to be compared with any cricketer that walked the earth. if you combine both tests and ODIs, there is no one good enough to compete with kallis as the greatest all round cricketer of all time (gilly is a distant second). well done jacques. i promise not to laugh anymore if someone calls you the greatest ever.

 

[smash84]

this double hundred changes everything for me. kallis has ticked all the boxes to be ranked among the top ten batters of all time. as for this thread, only style and flair would tilt this particular argument in favor of sobers. statistically jacques kallis ia good enough to be compared with any cricketer that walked the earth. if you combine both tests and ODIs, there is no one good enough to compete with kallis as the greatest all round cricketer of all time (gilly is a distant second). well done jacques. i promise not to laugh anymore if someone calls you the greatest ever.

you were only waiting for a double century to label him the greatest???

 

[Spikey]

Bit of a over-reaction. Let's wait until he reserve sweeps for 6 before we call him the greatest.

 

[Flem274*]

I think he was joking.

 

[bagapath]

I think he was joking.

thanks mate. cant believe spikey missed a full toss.

that aside, i do believe kallis will be a very relieved man to have crossed this barrier. cant really think of any statistical gap in his resume anymore. (and, yes, stats dont mean everything anyway)

you guys should check out the message prince EWS has sent me. brilliant timing!

 

[ankitj]

Glad to see Kallis scoring a double. For someone who had such a long and illustrious batting career, that indeed was a jewel missing from his feather. It's true that the best knocks don't necessarily have to double hundreds. But for someone who has had that long a career one would think he should have scored a double at some stage or the other.

I still don't consider Kallis the best South African batsman of all time though. Graeme Pollock in his only 23 test long career played some stunning knocks (including 2 doubles ftr) that Kallis hasn't matched in his career unless I am forgetting something. Then there is Barry Richards and the high regard that his contemporaries hold him in. And there is also Dudley Nourse who once made a double hundred with a broken thumb. Next to those 3, comes Kallis among South African batters.