Jacques Kallis vs Viv Richards

[Prince EWS]

This is where the Kallis love on here becomes detached from reality and gets accused of revisionism.

I said so at the time though.

I might be wrong but it's not revisionist. That's where I really get the shits.

Just say I'm wrong without the flavour text ffs.

 

[trundler]

I said so at the time though.

I might be wrong but it's not revisionist. That's where I really get the ****s.

Just say I'm wrong without the favour text ffs.

Yeah but I know that annoys you

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Rating Kallis higher than Ponting is a bit like rating Laxman/Amla higher than Pietersen

 

[trundler]

Rating Kallis higher than Ponting is a bit like rating Laxman/Amla higher than Pietersen

What? No.

Rating Kallis over Richards is like rating Davidson over Steyn.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

What? No.

Rating Kallis over Richards is like rating Davidson over Steyn.

I was talking about Ponting, not Viv

 

[subshakerz]

Ponting reached a level of batsmanship maybe slightly higher than Kallis's absolute peak, but it's insignificant compared to how much longer Kallis was able to be gun. If I had to manage a team of unknown quality for the next twenty years and you offered me Kallis or Ponting as batsmen alone for full careers then I'd take Kallis for sure and this is really in no way contradictory to anything I said at the time

Kallis' longevity is a fair point against Ponting given that Ponting had such a long decline.

But Ponting was a league or two above Kallis until 2007. It wasn't just that Kallis was a slow scorer, he also had never mega tonned up, which means that in your average SA innings you simply didn't see Kallis as that big of a threat to take the game away from you. Whereas with Dravid in that period, he would stick around long enough to seal the game with the sheer amount of runs.

Sure, he was consistent, but also against top teams or in big games, Kallis hardly had knocks of true substance.

He was just sort of there, hanging around the crease like a wall flower at a prom who nobody cares about.

 

[Prince EWS]

Cribb 2012 on various batsmen better than Viv.



Yeah but it's "revisionist" that I rate him that high now. I'm totally rewriting history.

No *****, I got in the trenches and did it at the time. I'm used to people disagreeing with me but this "revisionist" bullshit is, ironically, revisionist as ****. Blow it out your arses. It does legitimately piss me off, and I know it's fashionable to piss people off on purpose, but all the same.

 

[trundler]

Cribb 2012 on various batsmen better than Viv.

View attachment 37417

Yeah but it's "revisionist" that I rate him that high now. I'm totally rewriting history.

No ****s, I got in the trenches and did it at the time. I'm used to people disagreeing with me but this "revisionist" bull**** is, ironically, revisionist as ****. Blow it out your arses. It does legitimately piss me off, and I know it's fashionable to piss people off on purpose, but all the same.

That's a long time to be wrong. Yikes

 

[Prince EWS]

That's a long time to be wrong. Yikes

I definitely don't care about people thinking I'm wrong. I'm a ****ing anarcho-capitalist. It's a constant occurrence.

People thinking I'm being revisionist on this is like people saying I supported the bank bail outs though. You will get unqualified rage, and I don't care if it's cringe to care about things.

 

[ataraxia]

Of course they are. Richards is the significantly superior batsman and Kallis isn't enough of an AR to turn it around.

Please give me a rough estimate in the difference between Richards' and Kallis' adjusted batting averages (e.g. 55 v 50) as you see it.

 

[subshakerz]

No ****s, I got in the trenches and did it at the time. I'm used to people disagreeing with me but this "revisionist" bull**** is, ironically, revisionist as ****. Blow it out your arses. It does legitimately piss me off, and I know it's fashionable to piss people off on purpose, but all the same.

Don't worry, you aren't revisionist, just wrong.

I definitely don't care about people thinking I'm wrong. I'm a ****ing anarcho-capitalist. It's a constant occurrence.

People thinking I'm being revisionist on this is like people saying I supported the bank bail outs though. You will get unqualified rage, and I don't care if it's cringe to care about things.

So you're into crypto, we get it.

 

[Prince EWS]

Don't worry, you aren't revisionist, just wrong.

That's all I wanted

 

[h_hurricane]

Pretty much what BazBall Bhai says.

'Bazball Bhai' rhymes nicely with 'Asshole Bhai' that you coined in some other thread.

 

[subshakerz]

'Bazball Bhai' rhymes nicely with 'Asshole Bhai' that you coined in some other thread.

In a mysogynistic fashion I am assuming most of you are fellow guys here.

 

[h_hurricane]

In a mysogynistic fashion I am assuming most of you are fellow guys here.

I reckon that is the case. Can't be sure about anything on an online forum though.

 

[Coronis]

Kallis' longevity is a fair point against Ponting given that Ponting had such a long decline.

But Ponting was a league or two above Kallis until 2007. It wasn't just that Kallis was a slow scorer, he also had never mega tonned up, which means that in your average SA innings you simply didn't see Kallis as that big of a threat to take the game away from you. Whereas with Dravid in that period, he would stick around long enough to seal the game with the sheer amount of runs.

Sure, he was consistent, but also against top teams or in big games, Kallis hardly had knocks of true substance.

He was just sort of there, hanging around the crease like a wall flower at a prom who nobody cares about.

Huh thats interesting. Because with scores of 150+ Kallis’ team won 10 and drew 4, whereas Dravid’s team won 6 and drew 5.

 

[Coronis]

It's heartening to see. First job was to expose the myth that his bowling was specialist standard. We've mostly succeeded there. The bigger thing, which is still a work in progress, is to show he doesn't belong in the conversation as an ATG bat and at the very least carries serious liabilities that the others do not.

Don't worry, we will leave his slip fielding alone. For now.

Ah yes, the man with the second most test centuries and the third most test runs who averages 50+ home and away is not an ATG bat. Makes sense.

 

[subshakerz]

Huh thats interesting. Because with scores of 150+ Kallis’ team won 10 and drew 4, whereas Dravid’s team won 6 and drew 5.

You mean Kallis' team with Donald, Pollock, Steyn and Philander won more? Shocker.

Let's talk doubles. Nobody was scared of a Kallis 150 in the 2000s.

 

[Adorable Asshole]

Huh thats interesting. Because with scores of 150+ Kallis’ team won 10 and drew 4, whereas Dravid’s team won 6 and drew 5.

I mean Kallis team had far superior bowlers

 

[Coronis]

You mean Kallis' team with Donald, Pollock, Steyn and Philander won more? Shocker.

Let's talk doubles. Nobody was scared of a Kallis 150 in the 2000s.

No ****, you need bowlers to win games. Which is why saying Dravid won more games by sticking around and through weight of runs is stupid in the first place.

I mean Kallis team had far superior bowlers

See above.