Jacques Kallis vs Jack Hobbs

[subshakerz]

I'm happy putting Imran over Ambrose, whether cutting only his non-bowling tests or more. That's mostly a style preference.

Engineering Imrans record by cutting the games 14 games that best suit him still leaves him at a 22 average and 25 away, with a Steyn WPM. His home record gets ridiculous, but Steyn is still a bunch better away. Strikes a lot faster, and is the only top bowler with just about his entire career in the flat pitch/good bat era. More away wickets per match. I regard away performances as a better measure of quality, but even if I didn't I'd still take Steyn's overall record.

Exactly how many games get trimmed doesn't make much difference to me.

Depending on quality and style of a bat, it gets easier down to 5-7ish. After that it gets tougher for bats with any degree of quality. First new ball is gone either way. 2nd new ball and reverse could hit the lower or the lower middle harder. Bowlers are a little less fresh, but the amount of extra overs makes progressively less of a difference as the game goes on.

Everyone gets out cheaply before getting set to all sorts of bowling. Then cash in relative to career average once set. Lower order bats are missing out on chances to cash in when set by running out of partners/strike farming/swinging.

Pollock is pretty comparable in style and quality to the bowling phase of Imrans career. The other ARs differ on at least one. He is a player you have already brought up and is an easier comparison to Kallis as teamates.

Lol I disagree with most of this. I still find it hard to fathom how batting in the tail is harder than up the order or why you would compare Pollock with Imran versus batters of his own era. But I've said my piece.

 

[Bolo.]

Lol I disagree with most of this. I still find it hard to fathom how batting in the tail is harder than up the order or why you would compare Pollock with Imran versus batters of his own era. But I've said my piece.

What do you think Bradman would average at 11?

 

[shortpitched713]

For guys who wants batting to 11 (not you), what's wrong with a 6th bowler and an elite 2nd slip.

How the hell does his bowling in a superfluous spot, and fielding, strengthen a team's batting?

The team with Sachin is just happy to play a bowler "short" with 5, and presumably believe extra batting of Sachin makes their batting lineup stronger than the one with Kallis.

 

[subshakerz]

What do you think Bradman would average at 11?

Hard to say. He wouldn't have enough time to score a lot but could end up with something like 60 percent not outs in his career and with a juiced up average.

 

[Bolo.]

Hard to say. He wouldn't have enough time to score a lot but could end up with something like 60 percent not outs in his career and with a juiced up average.

That maths seems more than a little optimistic. He needs to score 40+ runs an innings. The average total partnership runs for 8, 9, and 10 he was involved in were all below 40.

Batting with the tail, you either try to maximise team runs by taking chances, pushing for singles and declining them etc. Which puts a big dent in your expected average.

Or you play without regard to the team total and still dent your average somewhat. The amount if runs you expect to score in an innings goes up as you score more. A not out means you have to come back the next innings and score instead, when your eye isn't in and you are less likely to be capable of dealing with conditions, bowlers etc.

 

[ataraxia]

He isn't in my top tier of primary guys and my no. 8 bowler can't be my no. 3 player.

What if he were your no. 8 batter too? Where is the line?

 

[shortpitched713]

Hard to say. He wouldn't have enough time to score a lot but could end up with something like 60 percent not outs in his career and with a juiced up average.

Lol, that's putting a lot of faith in the batsman next to him.

 

[subshakerz]

That maths seems more than a little optimistic. He needs to score 40+ runs an innings. The average total partnership runs for 8, 9, and 10 he was involved in were all below 40.

Batting with the tail, you either try to maximise team runs by taking chances, pushing for singles and declining them etc. Which puts a big dent in your expected average.

Or you play without regard to the team total and still dent your average somewhat. The amount if runs you expect to score in an innings goes up as you score more. A not out means you have to come back the next innings and score instead, when your eye isn't in and you are less likely to be capable of dealing with conditions, bowlers etc.

I mean, this is Bradman we are talking about. He could become a master at hogging the strike.

 

[sayon basak]

What do you think Bradman would average at 11?

Infinity I guess. He would be not out every single inning.

 

[shortpitched713]

Infinity I guess. He would be not out every single inning.

Nah, this is the opposite insanity.

He got out for a duck in his last innings, so he is not immune to early innings yips, and in this scenario he'd never get to carry on to a big knock when he was feeling it best.

I would guess he would have a very similar but probably somewhat lower average than his actual one of 99 94.

 

[Prince EWS]

Nah, this is the opposite insanity.

He got out for a duck in his last innings, so he is not immune to early innings yips, and in this scenario he'd never get to carry on to a big knock when he was feeling it best.

I would guess he would have a very similar but probably somewhat lower average than his actual one of 99 94.

If he got stuck with horrible 9s and 10s he might be ultra aggressive too, or turn down runs, so that would factor in as well. I think it'd be much lower.

 

[subshakerz]

If he got stuck with horrible 9s and 10s he might be ultra aggressive too, or turn down runs, so that would factor in as well. I think it'd be much lower.

It's pure speculation. He could adapt to the role and learn how to stretch the innings and never be dismissed.

 

[Prince EWS]

It's pure speculation.

Duh.

 

[subshakerz]

Duh.

Point being we have no idea either way.

 

[Prince EWS]

Point being we have no idea either way.

Still duh.

I was throwing out wild speculation. It's also possible he would be swallowed up by aliens if he did such a thing.

I was suggesting what I thought would be most likely. But we don't know which makes the speculation fun.

 

[Coronis]

Still duh.

I was throwing out wild speculation. It's also possible he would be swallowed up by aliens if he did such a thing.

I was suggesting what I thought would be most likely. But we don't know which makes the speculation fun.

I reckon he probably becomes the first #11 to score a ton.

 

[sayon basak]

I reckon he probably becomes the first #11 to score a ton.

If he performed well enough as a tail ender, he would be promoted up the batting order anyway.

 

[Prince EWS]

If he performed well enough as a tail ender, he would be promoted up the batting order anyway.

Unlike your posts.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

If Bradman played as a #11 for his whole career he would average 62.88.

 

[sayon basak]

If Bradman played as a #11 for his whole career he would average 62.88.

How do you know that?