Jack Hobbs vs Sachin Tendulkar

[Johan]

Fair, but highly doubt the issue can be considered comparable to that of Ponting and Kohli. Certainly wasn't perceived as such when he played I believe. Also, in his last FC game, RoWXI vs MCC, he scored 188 against Marshall and Hadlee opening the bowling.

Probably more solid than them yeah, he actually had a big tour of England unlike Ricky Boy and wasn't as embarrassing as Virat in England barring their major tours

 

[capt_Luffy]

Probably more solid than them yeah, he actually had a big tour of England unlike Ricky Boy and wasn't as embarrassing as Virat in England barring their major tourd

Also has a solid County record and some class knocks in English conditions in the FC games, like the one mentioned above. He unironically averages lower in India vs England than in England itself.

 

[Johan]

Also has a solid County record and some class knocks in English conditions in the FC games, like the one mentioned above.

Yeah.

 

[subshakerz]

I am being sincere when I say, I don't think there was a viable argument.

The main reason people give to support this argument was his WI record, which was always misrepresented.

I was willing to give a pass since he has a mixed record against WI. But now I realise that his records in Eng, Aus and NZ are spotty too.

Honestly, Miandad might have a better away record.

 

[peterhrt]

Sobers's answers changed depending on where he was speaking

Sobers wrote a long Foreword for Richard Sydenham's book of all-time teams in 2010. His opinions included the following.

Gavaskar was the best Indian batsman, ahead of Tendulkar. Gupte was the greatest leg-spinner ever, well ahead of Warne who didn't have a proper googly, resorted to bowling into the rough, and was generally overrated. Bedi and Prasanna were top class, Datta Gaekwad and Chandra Gadkari two of the finest cover fieldsmen he had seen.

Excluding himself, Keith Miller was the best all-rounder. Botham was the most gifted of the 1980s all-rounders but didn't fulfil his potential.

Hutton, a back foot player, was the leading English batsman, followed by Dexter. Other English batsmen were too negative, notably May who didn't hook, Barrington, Boycott and Cowdrey who had a lot more ability than he showed in Tests.

Adding what he said elsewhere, he seems to consider Weekes the greatest West Indian batsman and a particularly impressive hooker of fast bowling.

 

[Coronis]

Sobers wrote a long Foreword for Richard Sydenham's book of all-time teams in 2010. His opinions included the following.

Gavaskar was the best Indian batsman, ahead of Tendulkar. Gupte was the greatest leg-spinner ever, well ahead of Warne who didn't have a proper googly, resorted to bowling into the rough, and was generally overrated. Bedi and Prasanna were top class, Datta Gaekwad and Chandra Gadkari two of the finest cover fieldsmen he had seen.

Excluding himself, Keith Miller was the best all-rounder. Botham was the most gifted of the 1980s all-rounders but didn't fulfil his potential.

Hutton, a back foot player, was the leading English batsman, followed by Dexter. Other English batsmen were too negative, notably May who didn't hook, Barrington, Boycott and Cowdrey who had a lot more ability than he showed in Tests.

Adding what he said elsewhere, he seems to consider Weekes the greatest West Indian batsman and a particularly impressive hooker of fast bowling.

Vindication for @shortpitched713

Also not playing a certain shot = negative, and not bowling a certain ball = bad.

Even if you didn’t need to do those to get the results you did.

 

[centurymaker]

Sobers wrote a long Foreword for Richard Sydenham's book of all-time teams in 2010. His opinions included the following.

Gavaskar was the best Indian batsman, ahead of Tendulkar. Gupte was the greatest leg-spinner ever, well ahead of Warne who didn't have a proper googly, resorted to bowling into the rough, and was generally overrated. Bedi and Prasanna were top class, Datta Gaekwad and Chandra Gadkari two of the finest cover fieldsmen he had seen.

Excluding himself, Keith Miller was the best all-rounder. Botham was the most gifted of the 1980s all-rounders but didn't fulfil his potential.

Hutton, a back foot player, was the leading English batsman, followed by Dexter. Other English batsmen were too negative, notably May who didn't hook, Barrington, Boycott and Cowdrey who had a lot more ability than he showed in Tests.

Adding what he said elsewhere, he seems to consider Weekes the greatest West Indian batsman and a particularly impressive hooker of fast bowling.

Can't take a single thing he said here seriously tbh.

 

[Coronis]

Can't take a single thing he said here seriously tbh.

His opinion on Gupte has always confused me very much. They played a single test series together in 58/59 in India and Gupte’s performance was hardly outstanding. 22 @ 42.13. Maybe from the Kanpur test where he ripped through them in the first innings (9/102, Sobers out for 4.) But then in the second innings he could only take 1/121 as Sobers rampaged to 198 run out. Sobers himself scored 557 @ 92.83 and was only dismissed by Gupte that one time. Perhaps he watched him take 27 @ 29 on the Windies tour when he was a kid? Though his Bridgetown match (Barbados) was none too impressive either.

 

[capt_Luffy]

His opinion on Gupte has always confused me very much. They played a single test series together in 58/59 in India and Gupte’s performance was hardly outstanding. 22 @ 42.13. Maybe from the Kanpur test where he ripped through them in the first innings (9/102, Sobers out for 4.) But then in the second innings he could only take 1/121 as Sobers rampaged to 198 run out. Sobers himself scored 557 @ 92.83 and was only dismissed by Gupte that one time. Perhaps he watched him take 27 @ 29 on the Windies tour when he was a kid? Though his Bridgetown match (Barbados) was none too impressive either.

Might be Sobers found Gupte a bit difficult to bat. Or it can be Qadiresque situation (though better spinners existed back then, Sobers himself played a fair few). Or my favourite, it was a jab at Benaud as the latter rated Kanhai higher.

 

[peterhrt]

Or my favourite, it was a jab at Benaud as the latter rated Kanhai higher.

That was one theory at the time. Sobers valued spinners who were difficult to pick, like Gupte and Qadir. Gupte suffered from dropped catches and would have taken all ten in an innings had Lance Gibbs not been missed behind the wicket.

Sobers also seems to like Indian cricketers.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

I was willing to give a pass since he has a mixed record against WI. But now I realise that his records in Eng, Aus and NZ are spotty too.

Honestly, Miandad might have a better away record.

No to the second point. Despite whatever was there in WI, Sunny was notably superior to Miandad(he was also excellent vs Roberts and Holding in 76), he was decent in Aus(given performances BS Thommo), had an ATG tour of England, and his major achievement away from him is mastery of reverse swing vs Imran in Pakistan.

 

[h_hurricane]

There is a decent case for considering Hutton a better opener than Gavaskar. There isn't a good case for Miandad over Gavaskar. Openers have had it way tougher in that era(and in most eras frankly). Gavaskar's record isn't perfect but that could be said about a lot of ATG batsmen.

 

[DrWolverine]

Is there any batsman who has a perfect record?

Obviously Bradman doesn’t count.

Sachin is the closest in my opinion.

He played against 9 countries and averages 40+ against all those countries. He played in 10 countries and averages 40+ in all of them.

 

[Thala_0710]

Is there any batsman who has a perfect record?

Obviously Bradman doesn’t count.

Sachin is the closest in my opinion.

He played against 9 countries and averages 40+ against all those countries. He played in 10 countries and averages 40+ in all of them.

Sachin is definitely the closest. The only minute critcism of his is that he doesn't have a 500+ run series, although even that is refuted by a bit by the other ATG series he had where he has 400+ runs in 2-3 test match series, and the fact that he only played 3 test series of 5 matches

 

[capt_Luffy]

Is there any batsman who has a perfect record?

Obviously Bradman doesn’t count.

Sachin is the closest in my opinion.

He played against 9 countries and averages 40+ against all those countries. He played in 10 countries and averages 40+ in all of them.

Jack Hobbs. He literally has a perfect record, even the only caveat Tendulkar have (lack of 500+ runs series, which I frankly don't value, like at all); Hobbs has filled up there as well. It's the only reason I said in this thread that Hobbs and Tendulkar are above the rest, though nothing much between them.

 

[Coronis]

Sachin is definitely the closest. The only minute critcism of his is that he doesn't have a 500+ run series, although even that is refuted by a bit by the other ATG series he had where he has 400+ runs in 2-3 test match series, and the fact that he only played 3 test series of 5 matches

Its quite an oddity than India got a lot of 5 test series before his debut and then now after his retirement they are once again.

 

[subshakerz]

Sobers as a Batsmen > Kallis as a player to me ngl, you add in the fact he was a pace bowler on par with Kallis and then a spinner on top, it's not close

Same here. Sobers could not have taken a wicket or a catch and I would have him over Kallis.

 

[subshakerz]

No to the second point. Despite whatever was there in WI, Sunny was notably superior to Miandad(he was also excellent vs Roberts and Holding in 76), he was decent in Aus(given performances BS Thommo), had an ATG tour of England, and his major achievement away from him is mastery of reverse swing vs Imran in Pakistan.

Don't get me wrong, Gavaskar is a league ahead of Miandad overall.

But let's be objective here:

In England, Miandad has a better record and at least two series he delivered in, Gavaskar only one out of five.

In NZ, Miandad actually has really oustanding returns against Hadlee in a couple of series unlike Gavaskar. In fact may have been the best bat to play against Hadlee in his career.

In Australia, both are subobtimal but Miandad at least has a ton against Lillee he can point to, and a decent series in 81 around the same time Gavaskar toured. Gavaskar only propped up his Aussie record against a crap Aus team in 86 and a diminished Aus team in 78 (this was Thommo post injury).

In WI, Miandad never cashed in on weaker attacks like Gavaskar and has a poorer record. However, I will take his 87/88 series there over Gavaskar in 76.

Gavaskar outstanding in Pakistan against Imran is a feather in his cap, Miandad very good in India.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Maybe the difference between Gavaskar and Miandad as batsmen isn’t that big?

 

[centurymaker]

Maybe the difference between Gavaskar and Miandad as batsmen isn’t that big?

One was an opener.