Ishant Sharma v. Dale Steyn

[DaRick]

As long as his economy rate isn't ridiculous, I think it matters very little when he is fulfulling his role as a strike bowler absolutely perfectly. What's he average, 2 and a half wickets every 10 overs? That's outstanding.

You're partially right, but economy rate is somewhat more significant in ODI's than strike rate or average...not to the extent that Gavin Larsen>Brett Lee, as Richard has argued, but more important nonetheless.

Also, an economy rate of 5.46 is bordering on the ridiculous (IMO, anything >5 is still a touch too high). The fact that Tait has been known to bowl spells of 10 overs for 26 and 68 () respectively highlights his inconsistency, too.

 

[Lambu]

TBH I feel this thread has its bowlers mixed up. Dale Steyn vs Shaun Tait (if he was still playing) would be a better battle and in a few games time Ishant Sharma vs Tim Southee will be a good 'un.

I don't want to sound like a person who is biased..but Ishant Sharma is certainly comparable with Shaun Tait(yes in terms of pace and also experience whichever way you look at it)..if there is any one out of the four who doesn't belong there yet (in the class of express pace bowlers that is) its Southee.

 

[Goughy]

I don't want to sound like a person who is biased..but Ishant Sharma is certainly comparable with Shaun Tait(yes in terms of pace and also experience whichever way you look at it)..if there is any one out of the four who doesn't belong there yet (in the class of express pace bowlers that is) its Southee.

Im fine with Ishant being talked up as he looks a good prospect, but comparing him in terms of pace to Tait is just wishful thinking.

 

[Lambu]

Im fine with Ishant being talked up as he looks a good prospect, but comparing him in terms of pace to Tait is just wishful thinking.

I'm supposing you are an aussie? if so do tell me, am i wrong in saying that Tait's touches 155ks when he gives it his all( not to mention his erratic nature and i've heard stories of him bowling 165-170ks in domestic league, but i'll believe it when i see it).But that(155ks) was only during
one series(don't have reference) elsewise during the recent India test series he was ranging from 138-145(at best).I can tell you with evidence Ishant's fastest is 152ks(agreed he crossed 150 mark only once) but he consistently bowls above 147ks with skills that Tait can only dream of.

Note: if you aren't aussie or by any chance didn't catch the live coverage of recently concluded cb series then may be you should watch iton youtube or sumthing esp the 5th odi Ind vs Lanka or you could alternatively go to page 1 and read the 4th post, i reckon.

 

[Goughy]

I'm supposing you are an aussie? if so do tell me, am i wrong in saying that Tait's touches 155ks when he gives it his all( not to mention his erratic nature and i've heard stories of him bowling 165-170ks in domestic league, but i'll believe it when i see it).But that(155ks) was only during
one series(don't have reference) elsewise during the recent India test series he was ranging from 138-145(at best).I can tell you with evidence Ishant's fastest is 152ks(agreed he crossed 150 mark only once) but he consistently bowls above 147ks with skills that Tait can only dream of.

Note: if you aren't aussie or by any chance didn't catch the live coverage of recently concluded cb series then may be you should watch iton youtube or sumthing esp the 5th odi Ind vs Lanka or you could alternatively go to page 1 and read the 4th post, i reckon.

Yeah you got me. Im obviously an Aussie, though I couldnt even make a guess as to where you are from.

Interestingly that from claiming to be comparable in terms of pace your post (with its obvious bias) shows that they are not close in pace.

Ishant = Low 140s bowler. Tait = High 140s bowler. But I guess thats the same to you.

 

[kingkallis]

Dale Steyn for his pace and swing!

 

[Richard]

I'm supposing you are an aussie?

Dear oh dear.

FYI, Kevin has feet in a great number of camps, and Australia is not nor has ever (to my knowledge) looked like being one.

 

[Lambu]

I'm a bit vary about replying in the manner i would prefer..esp considering that you seem to be a senior on this forum and i started only today and am not aware of the tolerance level here

Ishant = Low 140s bowler. Tait = High 140s bowler.

how did you come to that conclusion based on my post,Einstien??i'm asking you whats Tait's fastest at international level?? to my knowledge it is 155ks(appx) doesn't mean hes always bowled around that pace and i have watched all the games both these bowlers have played to date(last i heard 152 is a comparable number to 155)..also i notice that you chose to ignore the stats of the perth test match when he was at his best in the previous series vs NZ.Wonder what happened to him all of a sudden?Also, for this entire discussion lets ignore Sharma is just 19.but anyways i guess v'll find out in a year or two(if not sooner) if at all Tait returns that is..

Anyways how many aussies and poms seriously believe that Tait took a temp. retirement for reasons other than mental disintegration due to the treatment meted out to him by the Indian batsmen???Never seen a bigger loser,IMOguess u found out about where i'm from eh?

 

[silentstriker]

I'm a bit vary about replying in the manner i would prefer..esp considering that you seem to be a senior on this forum and i started only today and am not aware of the tolerance level here



how did you come to that conclusion based on my post,Einstien??i'm asking you whats Tait's fastest at international level?? to my knowledge it is 155ks(appx) doesn't mean hes always bowled around that pace and i have watched all the games both these bowlers have played to date(last i heard 152 is a comparable number to 155)..also i notice that you chose to ignore the stats of the perth test match when he was at his best in the previous series vs NZ.Wonder what happened to him all of a sudden?Also, for this entire discussion lets ignore Sharma is just 19.but anyways i guess v'll find out in a year or two(if not sooner) if at all Tait returns that is..

Anyways how many aussies and poms seriously believe that Tait took a temp. retirement for reasons other than mental disintegration due to the treatment meted out to him by the Indian batsmen???Never seen a bigger loser,IMOguess u found out about where i'm from eh?

Calm down there. You are mixing many things. To say Sharma is as fast as Tait is a flat out wrong assertion. I have no idea how mental disintegration and things like that got involved. The discussion was about pace, and Tait on song is clearly one of the top three fastest bowlers in the world. Sharma is around 140, Tait is 145+ regularly and goes 155+ on occasion. Sharma's fast ball is about Tait's average.

 

[Lambu]

Calm down there. You are mixing many things. To say Sharma is as fast as Tait is a flat out wrong assertion. I have no idea how mental disintegration and things like that got involved. The discussion was about pace, and Tait on song is clearly one of the top three fastest bowlers in the world. Sharma is around 140, Tait is 145+ regularly and goes 155+ on occasion. Sharma's fast ball is about Tait's average.

i could argue my case further,but i see the light of it now.I did not suggest Sharma was faster than Tait..i think that was obvious from the numbers on display..but i thought people are of the opinion that Sharma was not in the express category? if not, then lets put this matter behind us.

 

[Lambu]

I dont think you made much of a secret about your bias

the question was rhetoric..anyways let me apologize to you..got off to the worst possible start with one of the forum's bigshots and yeah Tait's quicker

 

[Goughy]

the question was rhetoric..anyways let me apologize to you..got off to the worst possible start with one of the forum's bigshots and yeah Tait's quicker

No worries.

I like the look of Ishant and think he has quite a developed skill set for a bowler so young. As I said, he is a good prospect.

 

[silentstriker]

i could argue my case further,but i see the light of it now.I did not suggest Sharma was faster than Tait..i think that was obvious from the numbers on display..but i thought people are of the opinion that Sharma was not in the express category? if not, then lets put this matter behind us.

Sharma is not express. When I say express, I'd categorize Lee, Tait and Akhtar. Really guys who can do 150+ regularly (though Lee has lately gone down to 145-150 category and become a better bowler for it).

 

[Top_Cat]

how did you come to that conclusion based on my post,Einstien??i'm asking you whats Tait's fastest at international level?? to my knowledge it is 155ks(appx) doesn't mean hes always bowled around that pace and i have watched all the games both these bowlers have played to date(last i heard 152 is a comparable number to 155)..also i notice that you chose to ignore the stats of the perth test match when he was at his best in the previous series vs NZ.Wonder what happened to him all of a sudden?Also, for this entire discussion lets ignore Sharma is just 19.but anyways i guess v'll find out in a year or two(if not sooner) if at all Tait returns that is..

Check YouTube, there's footage right there of Tait bowling to NZ and clocking 160km/h twice in an over and not getting below 156km/h for the over. I'm as big a fan of Ishant as anyone and geez, he's certainly quick enough but at the moment, in terms of raw pace, Ishant is well below Tait. Ishant hit 150km/h+ a couple of times but generally was averaging in the low 140's for the ODI series in Australia. Personally, he'd be far less effective if he tried to push 150km/h regularly.

Anyways how many aussies and poms seriously believe that Tait took a temp. retirement for reasons other than mental disintegration due to the treatment meted out to him by the Indian batsmen???Never seen a bigger loser,IMOguess u found out about where i'm from eh?

You don't know him so have no idea what you're on about. This is not helpful dialogue, is it?

 

[Flem274*]

I don't want to sound like a person who is biased..but Ishant Sharma is certainly comparable with Shaun Tait(yes in terms of pace and also experience whichever way you look at it)..if there is any one out of the four who doesn't belong there yet (in the class of express pace bowlers that is) its Southee.

I was meaning bowling skill rather than pace. And yes I was thinking Southee vs Sharma should happen after Southee has more games under his belt.

 

[Cevno]

Sharma is not express. When I say express, I'd categorize Lee, Tait and Akhtar. Really guys who can do 150+ regularly (though Lee has lately gone down to 145-150 category and become a better bowler for it).

You have to consider pitch conditions and different speed guns too.
In australia during the ODI's IShant was bowling consistently at 150 but in india i think if he will play he like steyn would be around 140-145 i feel because of the heat,the slow pitch and the slow speed guns.
Btw, the south africans speed guns are most ridiculous.they had nehra bowling at 152 and lee bowling at 165 or close to it.
And in the recently concluded test in the west indies Taylor was beating batsmen with pace and the gun was showing max speeds of 85 miles per hour.One ball it showed At 40 miles per hour and it was a bouncer which the batsmen failed to cope with due to pace.

 

[Cevno]

I was meaning bowling skill rather than pace. And yes I was thinking Southee vs Sharma should happen after Southee has more games under his belt.

I am a fan of southee since the u-19 wc and think he is going to be top class.
But he will always have a advantage over sharma in terms of his home test match conditions.Most indian pitches just offer reverse swing for the fast bowlers and more help for the spin bowlers.

 

[Richard]

Btw, the south africans speed guns are most ridiculous.they had nehra bowling at 152 and lee bowling at 165 or close to it.

The ball travels quicker in the Highveldt in South Africa than elsewhere in The World, it's not faulty speedguns. Lee (or anyone else) has never been clocked at 165kph either, AFAIK.

And in the recently concluded test in the west indies Taylor was beating batsmen with pace and the gun was showing max speeds of 85 miles per hour.

It's perfectly possible to beat batsmen with balls of 85mph. Speed out of the hand is not all there is to whether a batsman is beaten for pace, far from it.

One ball it showed At 40 miles per hour and it was a bouncer which the batsmen failed to cope with due to pace.

Anomalaic results do happen.

 

[Manee]

The ball travels quicker in the Highveldt in South Africa than elsewhere in The World, it's not faulty speedguns. Lee (or anyone else) has never been clocked at 165kph either, AFAIK.

How will this effect release speeds though?

 

[Richard]

Air resistance acts upon an object the moment it starts to move. I'd be sceptical if it was causing 15kph less slowdown in a whole 10cm or so, but a mere 4 or 5 is just about conceivable.

Also, presumably body parts (like arms) move a bit quicker, so bowlers are able to propel the ball a bit quicker. Not too sure about that one mind, but I suppose it's a possibility.