Is the criticism of the Indian batting line up justified?

[Kirkut]

Well let's be honest, the team is still in transition.

They did well against the pace of Steyn and Morkel who used the kookaburra balls but have never faced the banana swing of the duke ball before.

So relax people, even Dravid took 5 years to become a class batsman. International cricket is tough.

 

[harsh.ag]

You relax.

 

[NasserFan207]

If you can't criticise them after this, what can you?

Seriously I think Kohli, Pujara and Rahane are all top talents but they've been disgraceful this series.

 

[Viscount Tom]

Well let's be honest, the team is still in transition.

They did well against the pace of Steyn and Morkel who used the kookaburra balls but have never faced the banana swing of the duke ball before.

So relax people, even Dravid took 5 years to become a class batsman. International cricket is tough.

Banana Swing?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B75tNVWh_sg

^Thats lethal swing, this series hasn't seen anywhere near as much.

The fact of the matter is these players haven't shown any stomach for the fight at all since Southampton barring Dhoni and in a few cases they haven't shown any in the series at all. They've been appalling bar 3 and frankly even amongst those 3 there's been plenty to be disappointed about.

Team in transition would work if they really were a team in transition but for the most part this batting line up isn't far removed from the one we faced when we toured India.

THe only positive to come out of this tour is the bowling because while Kumar has dropped off massively as the series went on he's not going to be playing any series this long so it's much less a worry about him backing up, as to whether he'll do well in Australia is another matter but from what I've seen this series, India, probably for the first time in a long time have a pace attack available to them that looks like it could do damage abroad.

 

[CWB304]

Well let's be honest, the team is still in transition.

They did well against the pace of Steyn and Morkel who used the kookaburra balls but have never faced the banana swing of the duke ball before.

So relax people, even Dravid took 5 years to become a class batsman. International cricket is tough.

It's like the (probably apocryphal) story of the mid-20th century Chinese communist leader who, when asked his thoughts on the impact of the French Revolution, replied that it was too soon to tell. It all depends on your perspective. I get your basic point, but some might counter by pointing out that we've become accustomed to hearing Pujara and Kohli being hailed as worthy successors to Dravid and Tendulkar, and it being taken for granted that they were guaranteed long-term fixtures in the India team, for quite a while.

On the strength of what we've seen this tour the first contention is laughable, and even the second is highly doubtful. Both have been exposed as having serious technical flaws which might potentially cut short their Test careers altogether. I would say that Kohli, who is probably rated higher because he more obviously possesses the ability to take opposition attacks apart, is the greater concern. He not only has chronic problems against seam and swing in these conditions but also often looks clueless against spin.

So I think you're deceiving yourself if you reckon it's a question of duke vs kookaburra. I can't think of a great batsman of the recent past to the present - from Lara/Tendulkar to Clarke/Amla - who has looked so utterly clueless in a series once their place has been established. The last named, for instance, struggled mightily and looked barely Test class first time out. But once he got his second chance having been dropped and properly established his place in the side he never looked back. The problem for Kohli and Pujara is that they were already established in the side before this series. The suspicion must now be that they're simply not that good.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

So it was greentops 3 years ago and banana swing this time.

Can't wait till they tour again for the next excuse.

 

[Kirkut]

So it was greentops 3 years ago and banana swing this time.

Can't wait till they tour again for the next excuse.

There were no greentops 3 years ago, and how is collapsing against banana swing an excuse here? There are very few international cricketers who are actually good against swing bowling.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

There were no greentops 3 years ago, and how is collapsing against banana swing an excuse here? There are very few international cricketers who are actually good against swing bowling.

There weren't but the Indian words before the series in India were about greentops and revenge.

 

[Kirkut]

Good point CWB304.

 

[91Jmay]

The criticism is certainly justified given the bluster and hype they arrived with, especially Kohli. This England attack shouldn't be bowling any side out for 205 or under four times in a row let alone this India side.

 

[zaremba]

They've played poorly, and have let their bowlers down badly. Doesn't mean they're not basically good players.

 

[Teja.]

Well let's be honest, the team is still in transition.

They did well against the pace of Steyn and Morkel who used the kookaburra balls but have never faced the banana swing of the duke ball before.

So relax people, even Dravid took 5 years to become a class batsman. International cricket is tough.

Dravid was averaging close to fifty in the 90s when there were three other batsmen averaging that across the world and averaged over 55 in every single tour outside the SC in his initial 2-3 years and often significantly more so I'm not sure where you're getting this from. (South Africa, England, NZ, WI and Zim). The first time when he was anything less than outstanding outside the SC was in Australia in 1999 three years after debut.

It didn't take five years for Dravid to establish himself as a class batsman. That or slightly later was just about when he became the second best batsman in the world after Ponting. He was class from the get go.

 

[Teja.]

If you can't criticise them after this, what can you?

Seriously I think Kohli, Pujara and Rahane are all top talents but they've been disgraceful this series.

Not sure how you can classify Rahane's performance as disgraceful. Yes he's thrown away his wicket like an idiot once but his near 300 runs at 37 with a match winning century is not excellent but definitely something to work with, IMO. Basically zero useless/easy runs among those as well.

 

[NasserFan207]

Not sure how you can classify Rahane's performance as disgraceful. Yes he's thrown away his wicket like an idiot once but his near 300 runs at 37 with a match winning century is not excellent but definitely something to work with, IMO. Basically zero useless/easy runs among those as well.

Fair enough, maybe I was harsh on Rahane

 

[Teja.]

and yes the criticism of the Indian batting lineup is justified. Kohli can't buy a run, Pujara seems to be trying his hardest yet keeps notching up 21s and 17s and Rahane seems to be batting with very little application after initial success. It'd be insane to consider replacing them and all of them still have had decent/good starts to their test careers but all of them need work on their mental game/technique before Australia.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Even if one concedes, for the sake of argument, that Anderson and Broad have been as unplayable as Wasim & Waqar, Moeen's 19 wickets in four and a half tests suggests that the weakness against swing isn't the only thing.

 

[Burgey]

Good point CWB304.

Phrases one never thought one would hear...

 

[Burgey]

Of course it's justified to bag a line up that's not scoring runs. They've been awful.

 

[watson]

Of course it's justified to bag a line up that's not scoring runs. They've been awful.

'Aweful' is a pretty accurate word to describe the batting. One Indian newspaper has also used 'shambolic';

Like Old Trafford, the Indian top-order, put up a shambolic display in the first session of the first day’s play. The resourceful Indian batting order can’t buy a run. Mental jadedness, perhaps? Or rigours of the five-Test series? The downward spiral with respect to their form has hurt India the most. Here’s where Dhoni – the batsman has stepped up and showed the way to the team.

The Indian captain has batted for more than 19 hours in the Test series – a pursuit inconceivable at the start of the series. This has been the most successful series for Dhoni in terms of runs scored – 349 in nine innings. He’s faced 704 balls – the most he has faced in a series. On day one of The Oval Test, Dhoni scored 82 runs out of India’s total of 148 – 55.41 per cent of the runs – becoming the first Indian captain to score more than half of his side’s runs in an innings.

India vs England 2014: MS Dhoni Steps Up Yet Again In Another Indian Batting Collapse | Cricket | www.indiatimes.com

However, good on Dhoni for showing the top order how it's done.

 

[CWB304]

Phrases one never thought one would hear...

You're sure setting a great example. Moron.