Is Tendulkar a choker

[tooextracool]

And if he'd got out like the rest of the batsmen had done the match would've been long gone!

How you can blame him for this sort of thing when the rest of the top order failed to amke a mark is crazy IMO.

i did not blame him for defeat. my point is that he fails to finish games off and is more of a flat pitch bully....thereby not making him a great player.youre quite right about the fact that without his innings the match would have been over a long time before but did his innings really make a difference?they still lost.. only the margin was different and im sure when sachin retires and looks back at his career he will regret the fact that he never truly won a game for india with the bat and that hes done his immense potential a bit of injustice.

 

[Raj123]

im sure when sachin retires and looks back at his career he will regret the fact that he never truly won a game for india with the bat and that hes done his immense potential a bit of injustice.

i doubt he has any regrets. coz he and true cricket supporters around the world realise what he's given to the game and indian cricket in particular.

 

[Lions81]

actually sachin had a superb century in perth if my memory is right, so by definition, perth has to be a flat track, right?

Correct. And if Tendulkar gets out for zero, it's either a seaming track or a hard, bouncy track, unless another Indian batsman scores a lot, then it turns out it was indeed a flat pitch but Tendulkar just got out foolishly.

 

[Anil]

Correct. And if Tendulkar gets out for zero, it's either a seaming track or a hard, bouncy track, unless another Indian batsman scores a lot, then it turns out it was indeed a flat pitch but Tendulkar just got out foolishly.

Every batsman gets out "foolishly" a few times in his career, that's not what makes him great or not-so-great, it is whether he has played great innings against good or great attacks that does so. Tendulkar has played several of those with and without support from his teammates several times in the 90s and in the new millenium(Have you ever noticed in both tests and one dayers, that when Tendulkar is batting well, his teammates feed off his confidence and play to potential, but the moment he gets out, the pitch becomes devilish, the bowlers become world-beaters and the opposition starts feeling that the match is sown up. It is happening less and less nowadays because other players are stepping up more and more which is a good sign for Indian cricket, but when you have witnessed that phenomena a few times, you are left with basically no doubts regarding the sheer class of the little man). I was responding to a comment made by a few here that he is incapable of scoring well on bowler-friendly tracks, in other words a flat-track bully. That is an extremely ridiculous statement which can be easily disproved using statistics. These innings and stats are too well-known and have already been listed here several times.

When Sachin scores 141 at better than a run-a-ball chasing 330+ in a high voltage match without any significant support from his teammates and then gets out and India lose the match, the statement that Sachin choked and lost India the match is an extremely silly one while the same people do not say a word against all his teammates who failed in that match. The fact of the matter was that the best batsman in the team had made a superb contribution and if that had been supported by significant contributions from at least 2 other batsmen, India would have really made a match of it. This is just one example. His career is replete with such brave, but hopeless stands in losing causes and it was not Sachin who choked in those situations, but the rest of the team.

Of course, there are situations where he has failed in crunch situations, that's because although he is a great batsman, he is not perfect, he is not infallible. No batsman, including the great Don was.

Someone here posted that Sachin was overrated because Bradman, Warne, Viv Richards, Steve Waugh and such greats of the game said that he was one of the greatest. He is basically questioning the integrity and the cricketing intelligence and judgement of these great players. We should always have our own opinions and value-judgements, but specifically regarding cricket, first, have a feel for cricketing history, know your stats and rules and analyse objectively before coming up with statements, don't just go by impressions, selective knowledge, prejudices and/or hearsay.

 

[aussie_beater]

Sachin Tendulkar is a flat-track bully....huh ? Well let's look at some stats for test matches he has played in countries where pitches are considered to be "non-flat tracks" most of the time except maybe WI of late... but then we are talking about a career that spans 15 years and not some flash in the pan stuff.

Sachin in -

Australia - played : 12, average : 54.15
England - played : 10, average : 71.60
NZ - played : 8, average : 41.50
SA - played : 9, average : 42.40
WI - played : 10, average : 47.69​

That's a cumulative average of 51.47..... well if someone considers a batsman with that average in known non-flat tracks, a flat track bully, I would say you have problems buddy

 

[tooextracool]

lets just change gear a little bit.....has tendulkar ever had a consistent run of good scores outside of india in tests?im not talking about pulling off a kallis but like what dravid did in pakistan and australia....or laxman in australia?its almost too predictable that we'll see sachin score one century and one 50 odd and then fail in the rest of the series....

 

[Deja moo]

lets just change gear a little bit.....has tendulkar ever had a consistent run of good scores outside of india in tests?im not talking about pulling off a kallis but like what dravid did in pakistan and australia....or laxman in australia?its almost too predictable that we'll see sachin score one century and one 50 odd and then fail in the rest of the series....

And thats bad????

Look at it this way.....Dravid is only doing now what Tendulkar did to the Aussies in 98....get century after century....

Atleast Tendlya is sure 2 hitt a good innins or 2 every series....not laxman .he looks lost when faced with any opposition other than the aussies.

I like the predictibility of sachin that he'll get a century consistently series after series......cant say the same about anyone else except dravid.

So tendulkar is a choker? I didnt see any of the other big 4 hit centuries in the big finals where tendlya failed. sachin didnt get the 100's, but neither did ganguly, dravid, laxman.

 

[Sehwag309]

Rediff Interview with Tendulkar

I liked what he said "In the World Cup, I changed something halfway through the tournament but no one noticed it. My stance was different. After the Zimbabwe game my stance was different. I had more gap in between my legs. You plan to play different shots and plan to move differently so that you are in position before time. I have done that since 1993"

The Rediff Cricket Interview/Sachin Tendulkar

 

[maxpower]

pretty good interview, I mostly like that part whene he talked about sydney test.
"And I felt proud that I did not play a single cover drive in the innings. If you see my wagon wheel you will see that there was not a single run scored from there. It was a very special innings for me. It was a well-disciplined innings where I curbed my natural instincts. I played within my plans."

To me if this is not hunger for runs then I dont know what is, to be able to not play your bread and butter shot, and to only score on one side of the wickets, and control yourself for hours and hours and remain not out scoring 241 against AUS, well that is a brillance of a different kind all together.

 

[aussie_beater]

lets just change gear a little bit.....has tendulkar ever had a consistent run of good scores outside of india in tests?im not talking about pulling off a kallis but like what dravid did in pakistan and australia....or laxman in australia?its almost too predictable that we'll see sachin score one century and one 50 odd and then fail in the rest of the series....

And you call someone who scores one 100 and one 50(which is not right because Sachin has scored more then just one 100 and one 50 in quite a few series abroad, but let's assume you are correct ), in every series in every type of surface over a career of 15 years, a flat-track bully ??

 

[tooextracool]

And you call someone who scores one 100 and one 50(which is not right because Sachin has scored more then just one 100 and one 50 in quite a few series abroad, but let's assume you are correct ), in every series in every type of surface over a career of 15 years, a flat-track bully ??

1 100 and 1 50 is not something to be proud of in a 4-5 match series.2 successes out of 8-10 is not something to be proud of for the supposed "best batsman in the world" and hes consistent at not getting more that that
and its not necessary that pitches abroad are not flat.every series generally(nz being an exception) has one flat pitch at least, and i'll betcha sachin scores a 100 in that one.

 

[Swervy]

1 100 and 1 50 is not something to be proud of in a 4-5 match series.2 successes out of 8-10 is not something to be proud of for the supposed "best batsman in the world" and hes consistent at not getting more that that
and its not necessary that pitches abroad are not flat.every series generally(nz being an exception) has one flat pitch at least, and i'll betcha sachin scores a 100 in that one.

mmm...you may have a point...he certainly hasnt done that much in the last 2 years or so in tests (apart from the occasional score of 190+...hehehehe)...his consistancy has all but gone (in his last 19 test innings, he has been got out in single figures 11 times.

I wouldnt go so far as to call him a choker though, he is going through a ropey patch thats all...but maybe we have seen the best of him...wonder when he will retire or be dropped

 

[aussie_beater]

1 100 and 1 50 is not something to be proud of in a 4-5 match series.2 successes out of 8-10 is not something to be proud of for the supposed "best batsman in the world" and hes consistent at not getting more that that
and its not necessary that pitches abroad are not flat.every series generally(nz being an exception) has one flat pitch at least, and i'll betcha sachin scores a 100 in that one.

Let's not even go to the "pitches in NZ" discussion..... and what was your flat-pitch definition again ? Does WACA(Perth), Johannesburg, Capetown, Headingley and the likes fall under that definition ?

 

[Anil]

lets just change gear a little bit.....has tendulkar ever had a consistent run of good scores outside of india in tests?im not talking about pulling off a kallis but like what dravid did in pakistan and australia....or laxman in australia?its almost too predictable that we'll see sachin score one century and one 50 odd and then fail in the rest of the series....

In England 1990 - 245 runs in 3 tests at 61.25
In England 1996 - 428 runs in 3 tests at 85.6
In Australia 1999-00 - 278 runs in 3 tests at 46.3
In W I 1996-97 - 289 in 3 tests at 57.8
In SA 2001-02 - 193 in 2 tests at 64.3
In SL 1993 - 203 in 3 tests at 101.50
In SL 1997 - 290 in 2 tests at 96.66
In NZ 1998-99 - 227 runs in 2 tests at 75.66

of course all the centuries and the fifties were scored on the flattest of tracks....that, i'm sure goes without saying....

 

[a massive zebra]

In England 1990 - 245 runs in 3 tests at 61.25
In England 1996 - 428 runs in 3 tests at 85.6
In Australia 1999-00 - 278 runs in 3 tests at 46.3
In W I 1996-97 - 289 in 3 tests at 57.8
In SA 2001-02 - 193 in 2 tests at 64.3
In SL 1993 - 203 in 3 tests at 101.50
In SL 1997 - 290 in 2 tests at 96.66
In NZ 1998-99 - 227 runs in 2 tests at 75.66

of course all the centuries and the fifties were scored on the flattest of tracks....that, i'm sure goes without saying....

All the series you mentioned consisted of a maximum of 3 tests and all but one were at least 5 years ago. 3 Tests is not enough to prove he had an extended period of good form away, and the paucity of 21st century examples illustrates his lack of consistency away from home these days. Taken in context your stats prove nothing about his current away form.

 

[aussie_beater]

All the series you mentioned consisted of a maximum of 3 tests and all but one were at least 5 years ago. 3 Tests is not enough to prove he had an extended period of good form away, and the paucity of 21st century examples illustrates his lack of consistency away from home these days. Taken in context your stats prove nothing about his current away form.

How about looking at pure averages ?

Sachin in -

Australia - played : 12, average : 54.15
England - played : 10, average : 71.60
NZ - played : 8, average : 41.50
SA - played : 9, average : 42.40
WI - played : 10, average : 47.69

Yes, I agree his form of late hasn't been that great, but to say that he is a flat-track bully is laughable to say the least

 

[a massive zebra]

How about looking at pure averages ?

Sachin in -

Australia - played : 12, average : 54.15
England - played : 10, average : 71.60
NZ - played : 8, average : 41.50
SA - played : 9, average : 42.40
WI - played : 10, average : 47.69

Yes, I agree his form of late hasn't been that great, but to say that he is a flat-track bully is laughable to say the least

I never said he was a flat track bully, but do think despite the occasional huge innings, he is past his best. The consistency is no longer there and no sane person could doubt that Dravid is now be far India's most dependable and best batsman.

 

[maxpower]

lets just change gear a little bit.....has tendulkar ever had a consistent run of good scores outside of india in tests?im not talking about pulling off a kallis but like what dravid did in pakistan and australia....or laxman in australia?its almost too predictable that we'll see sachin score one century and one 50 odd and then fail in the rest of the series....

okay you perviously said that pitches in AUS were flat !!, you dont mind giving dravid and laxman credit there, but when it comes to sachin, well. and from this post it seems like you want to give laxman credit, but you have called him a flat track bully earlier as well.

 

[Anil]

All the series you mentioned consisted of a maximum of 3 tests and all but one were at least 5 years ago. 3 Tests is not enough to prove he had an extended period of good form away, and the paucity of 21st century examples illustrates his lack of consistency away from home these days. Taken in context your stats prove nothing about his current away form.

first of all, i was responding directly to tec, not to you and he has given none of the above conditions which you have suddenly come up with.

 

[a massive zebra]

first of all, i was responding directly to tec, not to you and he has given none of the above conditions which you have suddenly come up with.

OK keep your hair on.

Was just saying your figures don't prove than Tendulkar has been consistent away from home recently.