Is Pace An Overrated Asset?

[marc71178]

Barnes played 27 tests
TESTS
(career)

O R W Ave BBI 5 10 SR Econ
Bowling 1312.1 3106 189 16.43 9-103 24 7 41.6 2.36

Botham after 27 tests
O R W Ave BBI 5 10 SR Econ
1111.4 2818 146 19.30 8-34 14 3 45.7 2.53


not really trying to make a point with that...but still quite interesting

Very interesting when you consider the respective conditions.

 

[Craig]

Schwass & Penn were not of international standard despite putting the numbers on the board. It's fair to say they were helped greatly by favourable bowling conditions over their careers.

Butler has more talent..if he gets it right he can get steep bounce with pace which can be more threatning on any type of surface, whereas Penn & Schwass would only be good on pitches that have seam movement in them.

Now I could be wrong but has Andrew Schwass even played for New Zealand?

Andrew Penn had only a few ODIs.

 

[Macka]

Didn't Penn bowl an over with about 6 wides first up on his debut? Only to follow it up with a wicket maiden next over from no where?

 

[shaka]

I guess pace can be an asset later in your international experience, I mean take Brett Lee and stephen Harmison used to bowl without any true aim and not looking like really getting a wicket, however as they have become more experienced in international cricket, I feel that their pace has become an asset because their "aggression" has become a weapon rather than a detriment to their success. Both have become better channel bowlers than when they first started out on the international arena.

 

[alexkumar]

Malcolm Marshall is world greatest bowler of all.

Richard Hadlee is best technique,control and consistent. -- a true genius.


I really think , just pace is useless.

I do really think Pace with bounce is the best tandem.

If you can bounce the ball (not short ball) in a flat wicket , Then you are the best bowler, you get obviously get wickets.

To get Indian batting is easy. Indians are always weak against OUT swingers.

I used to see Ellison get wickets easy against india because all his six balls just out swingers. Indian bastman has a tendency to fish for ball outside.

later

 

[Mr. P]

I wouldn't say pace is overrated. It is just a question of control.

However even a wayward express pacemen will do well by picking up wickets with pure speed. It only takes one delivery online and a batsman will turn to see him stumps out of the ground. Take Lee for example. However offline he may be, the odd one he does get right can murder a batsman.

Also they are superb in the picking-up-tailender category. Same applies to leg spinners.

 

[youngster_89]

It is important to have a quicker bolwer so that the batsman doesn't get to comfortable at the crease. Or else the other bowlers have to try hard to keep them under pressure

 

[a massive zebra]

It is important to have a quicker bolwer so that the batsman doesn't get to comfortable at the crease. Or else the other bowlers have to try hard to keep them under pressure

On the contrary. The quicker bowlers often provide the batsman with free runs by spraying the ball all over the place, thus taking the pressure off. Bowlers like McGrath do not give the batsman any free runs and consequently keep the pressure on.

 

[Tim]

No Schwass has not played international cricket..but someone mentioned that he should have been in line before Butler. I was disagreeing because Schwass at best is medium pace & is another NZ bowler who profits from substandard green wickets in NZ.

 

[marc71178]

I guess pace can be an asset later in your international experience, I mean take Brett Lee and stephen Harmison used to bowl without any true aim and not looking like really getting a wicket, however as they have become more experienced in international cricket, I feel that their pace has become an asset because their "aggression" has become a weapon rather than a detriment to their success. Both have become better channel bowlers than when they first started out on the international arena.

Although what you're saying is true of Harmison, I think Lee has actually gone in the opposite direction...

 

[tooextracool]

He's not good either. Has never averaged under 30 in any Test series, and his county championship average is 38! We have more effective bowlers but the selectors pick Jones purely for his pace.

i dont know how much of jones you've actually seen, but if you had taken the time to watch that 1st test against NZ you would realise how foolish those comments really are. jones bowled at onlly 85-86 so he isnt exactly as fast as people make him out to be and he definetly wasnt picked for his pace. he bowled undoubtedly the best spell of the match and is picked because he offers something completely different from the rest of the attack....reverse swing and the ability to bowl with the old ball. if he were only more accurate, he would be devastating.

 

[tooextracool]

On the contrary. The quicker bowlers often provide the batsman with free runs by spraying the ball all over the place, thus taking the pressure off. Bowlers like McGrath do not give the batsman any free runs and consequently keep the pressure on.

it depends on the kind of bowler too, mcgrath didnt really need pace because he was tall and got enough out of the pitch anyways, but bowlers like gough etc got considerably worse when they lost their price asset....ie pace

 

[a massive zebra]

i dont know how much of jones you've actually seen, but if you had taken the time to watch that 1st test against NZ you would realise how foolish those comments really are. jones bowled at onlly 85-86 so he isnt exactly as fast as people make him out to be and he definetly wasnt picked for his pace. he bowled undoubtedly the best spell of the match and is picked because he offers something completely different from the rest of the attack....reverse swing and the ability to bowl with the old ball. if he were only more accurate, he would be devastating.

If Jones is so great then why has he never been successful for England, and why does he struggle against county batsman?

 

[Swervy]

If Jones is so great then why has he never been successful for England, and why does he struggle against county batsman?

he has had success for england though...first off, he has taken a wicket in every innings he has bowled in...he has taken a 5-57 vs WI, 3-82 vs NZ.

remember he has only played 7 tests..and he is a strike bowler..and his strike rate is a pretty impressive 55.5...and he should get better

 

[tooextracool]

If Jones is so great then why has he never been successful for England,

he has had success for england albeit minimal but that had more to do with not being 'match fit'. he bowled quite brilliantly in both innings at lords and that for me when was when he was fit. i doubt hes match fit now but when he is i think he is quite a handy bowler to have.

and why does he struggle against county batsman?

i dont watch county cricket, but there have been several other bowlers(harmison comes to mnd) who havent done much at the domestic level and yet have been impressive at the intl level.

 

[marc71178]

If Jones is so great then why has he never been successful for England, and why does he struggle against county batsman?

Harmison has hardly been the most successful in County Cricket...

 

[Dick Rockett]

No Schwass has not played international cricket..but someone mentioned that he should have been in line before Butler. I was disagreeing because Schwass at best is medium pace & is another NZ bowler who profits from substandard green wickets in NZ.

Just about anyone should have been in line before Butler.

As for Schwass, I don't think that's fair. When I saw him bowl, he got a lot of swing, and that has nothing to do with the pitch. Also, being a CD player, he hasn't had the benefit of playing on one home ground with consistent characteristics.

For example, McLean Park has had one of the better pitches in the country for a while now. In that infamous India series that was the only ground on which either team made a decent score. Pukekura Park isn't exactly a bowler's paradise either. With those short boundaries it's often the opposite - err slightly and you're toast: "Whoops, another six! Well done old chap."

If Schwass had played most of his career for Auckland and had the benefit of bowling on the Outer Oval, I might agree with you. I think he's been hard done by. A potential ODI player at least (once upon a time).

 

[Tim]

He would be murdered by International class batsmen! I would have nightmares about him bowling his medium pace on a flat Indian track.

 

[Tim]

I think you'll find that for the 4 dayers, Pukekura Park is no batsman friendly pitch. It's green, usually soggy & the scores over the years there have been extremely low.

 

[Will Scarlet]

Pure pace can be useful against tail-enders, as they generally don't have the confidence or technique to deal with short deliveries.

I agree that Brett Lee has got worse in recent times, but he has had injuries.

Bowlers like Butler and Lee will often get wickets as the batsmen are going after their wayward bowling and get surprised by a good ball.