Is Matt Prior the best keeper/batsman

[KungFu_Kallis]

Have seen a few of these articles lately... e.g. Matt Prior is the equal of Australia great Adam Gilchrist as a wicketkeeper-bastmen says Jack Russell - Mirror Online
This article quoted Jack Russel so has some weight. Although he is English of course, the same as most of the people who said that James Anderson is best swing bowler in the world until last year for some reason... But is there something more in this one?

Prior has obviously improved and is now consistently a gun bat. But is he really the best keeper or keeper batsman in the world, better than AB De Villiers and Dhoni, or even rivalling Gilchrist? Was Gilchrist even the best of his era? Better than the possibly underrated Andy Flower because of his minnow nation? And does only Test cricket count in these judgements, as Prior of course only plays Tests. And how much weight is there in the other "team" aspects of keeping aside from catching and scoring important runs? Hmmm is all I'll say for now.

 

[Prince EWS]

I'm not quite sure what this thread is about.

Matt Prior is the best wicket keeper/batsman in the world by a massive margin. Dhoni and de Villiers don't even come close.

However, comparisons with Gilchrist are ridiculous at this stage.

 

[watson]

I think that people are getting over hyped because of Prior's recent century against the Kiwi's.

However, as far as 'rear-guard actions' are concerned it's still not a patch on Gilchrist's 149 not out (163 balls) in 1999 against Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib, and Saqlain;

2nd Test: Australia v Pakistan at Hobart, Nov 18-22, 1999 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[Adders]

I think since Prior does only play test cricket (although **** knows why, I'd have him playing in the short formats ahead of the keepers we've been playing) then you need to keep the debate to test cricket only.

Better than Dohni??? Yes. I'm not sure Prior will ever score a defining double like Dhoni did against the Aussies, but for consistency Prior has it all over him. Far better keeper too.

Better than AB?? Hmmm, this is the tough one. De Villiers is one of the best batsmen in the world and as much as I love Matty Prior I don't quite hold him in that higher regard. But is AB really a keeper and will he be there long term for SA?? He's only held the gloves for what 11 odd tests?? So based on that I reckon Prior gets the nod.

Better than Gilchrist?? No. But to be fair not that far behind. Up until around 2005 when Gilly was averaging mid 50's and flaying the world, he was by far the best the world has ever seen. Sadly though his batting ave declined and finished at around 47, Prior could go on to match or even better that.

 

[benchmark00]

lol.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

I think even the English and Aussie fans would accept that Gilchrist is better than Prior but Prior has made the gap in ability look a lot less in the last couple of years. Lets leave it at that and just appreciate a very good player at the top of his game.

 

[sphynx]

Comical.

 

[sledger]

lololololol he's English so he's **** [/****s]

 

[dermo]

wade's pretty gun tbf

 

[sonnench]

I would rather have AB in my team. AB is one of the best batsmen in the world, where Prior isn't anywhere near that, so I think it's fair to say AB is a considerably better batsmen. And as far as keeping goes, AB has not been keeping long at test matches for us, but the difference in wicket keeping skill level is not even as close as big as the one in batting.

It's simple for me, when making a World Text XI, i would much rather AB at keeping, and the option of selecting another world class batsmen. The keeping difference is just not big enough to have Prior instead.

 

[ProteasFan]

I would rather have AB in my team. AB is one of the best batsmen in the world, where Prior isn't anywhere near that, so I think it's fair to say AB is a considerably better batsmen. And as far as keeping goes, AB has not been keeping long at test matches for us, but the difference in wicket keeping skill level is not even as close as big as the one in batting.

It's simple for me, when making a World Text XI, i would much rather AB at keeping, and the option of selecting another world class batsmen. The keeping difference is just not big enough to have Prior instead.

I got to agree with this. AB the batsman is miles ahead of Prior and his keeping is fine. He may not have the best technique WRT to keeping but he takes his catches and that's all that matters IMO.

Keeping stats for the last 12 months:
Prior 14 matches, 24 innings, 37 dismissals
AB: 11 matches, 21 innings, 43 dismissals.

 

[MW1304]

The stats boys will say that de Villiers is a much better batsman than Prior but if you've actually watched them both play over the past few years you'll see that this isn't really the case. The gap is pretty marginal. If you asked me who i'd rather have coming in at 500/3, I'd say de Villiers; if you asked me who I'd rather have coming in at 50/3, well, I wouldn't say de Villiers.

 

[Neil Pickup]

I cannot understand what possesses people to use catches per innings as a measure of a wicketkeeper's ability.

The Prior vs de Villiers question is an interesting one for my money, as you're not really comparing like with like - I wonder what their averages would look like if you swapped them over, playing at different positions in different lineups? AB hasn't been keeping in Tests for long, and it remains to be seen whether he can sustain the standards in what is an exceptionally hard task. One year isn't enough to place someone on a pedestal as best in the world.

I would be inclined to say there's an argument for both to be in contention for a World XI.

 

[Kapil]

The stats boys will say that de Villiers is a much better batsman than Prior but if you've actually watched them both play over the past few years you'll see that this isn't really the case. The gap is pretty marginal. If you asked me who i'd rather have coming in at 500/3, I'd say de Villiers; if you asked me who I'd rather have coming in at 50/3, well, I wouldn't say de Villiers.

This.

And let's consider the keeping.
For the sake of neutrality, let's say James Pattinson is the bowler.
Last over of a Test match, opposition 9 down playing for a draw.
Pattinson fires one down the legside, which the batsman deflects round the corner.
AB is going to miss it. Match drawn. All over.
Prior is quite likely to go flying to his left and pull off a screamer. Match won, Prior the hero.

Frankly, I'm a stickler for best keeper for keeper, even if it means sacrificing batting ability. But let's face it, the way keepers are trained up these days, the batting difference in merely negligible. And AB is far more likely to go off on the third day of a Test because his back is a bit iddy-biddy sore.

 

[ProteasFan]

This.

And let's consider the keeping.
For the sake of neutrality, let's say James Pattinson is the bowler.
Last over of a Test match, opposition 9 down playing for a draw.
Pattinson fires one down the legside, which the batsman deflects round the corner.
AB is going to miss it. Match drawn. All over.
Prior is quite likely to go flying to his left and pull off a screamer. Match won, Prior the hero.

Frankly, I'm a stickler for best keeper for keeper, even if it means sacrificing batting ability. But let's face it, the way keepers are trained up these days, the batting difference in merely negligible. And AB is far more likely to go off on the third day of a Test because his back is a bit iddy-biddy sore.

I disagree, in that scenario, I would back AB to make the catch. AB has amazing reflexes and I have seen him pull off "screamers".

Fair enough, his back is a bit iffy, but in the year that he has been keeping, he has never went out with a sick note, so it ain't fair to bash him with that stick.

 

[Neil Pickup]

I don't think the batting difference is "negligible". It's not a dispute that both players are currently in superb touch - but over the last three years, AB is averaging 70 and Prior "only" 50. Whether this has any relevance in the "keeper-batsman" discussion is a moot point, however, as AB "only" averages 50 as keeper - and, with Kapil's point about (i) leg-side takes and (ii) match fitness, my mind is drawn to one conclusion:

If Prior was in contention for the SA side (avoid the urge to make the obvious-and-not-funny wisecrack here, please), then there is no doubt in my mind that he would be taking the gloves in the next Test match.

 

[Kapil]

I disagree, in that scenario, I would back AB to make the catch. AB has amazing reflexes and I have seen him pull off "screamers".

Fair enough, his back is a bit iffy, but in the year that he has been keeping, he has never went out with a sick note, so it ain't fair to bash him with that stick.

Never went out with a sick note, as in, never had to give up keeping due to injury?

I take you back to an article on Cricinfo on the 18.01 this year.

I believe it discusses how AB needed to give up the gloves for the ODI series v NZ because of his injuries etc. and also how the injury prevented him from playing in the t20 series v NZ. AND, how it forced him to take three weeks rest after the 2012 World Twenty20.

I think saying that injuries haven't stopped him keeping is a fair push.

South Africa v New Zealand, 1st ODI, Paarl : AB de Villiers abandons wicketkeeping role | Cricket News | South Africa v New Zealand | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[ProteasFan]

Never went out with a sick note, as in, never had to give up keeping due to injury?

I take you back to an article on Cricinfo on the 18.01 this year.

I believe it discusses how AB needed to give up the gloves for the ODI series v NZ because of his injuries etc. and also how the injury prevented him from playing in the t20 series v NZ. AND, how it forced him to take three weeks rest after the 2012 World Twenty20.

I think saying that injuries haven't stopped him keeping is a fair push.

South Africa v New Zealand, 1st ODI, Paarl : AB de Villiers abandons wicketkeeping role | Cricket News | South Africa v New Zealand | ESPN Cricinfo

That comment was in reference to your insuination that he is more likely to retire on Day3. This hasn't happened, so you can't bash him with that stick.

 

[Kapil]

But I can mention the fact that he is liable to being injured.

So, to rephrase.

"AB de Villiers has potential of ruling himself out of matches due to his recurring back injury, whereas Matt Prior has no such known issues."

Happy?

 

[vic_orthdox]

Prior doesn't have two singles that have charted in the top 10. /discussion