Is Kapil Dev an ATG test cricketer?

[capt_Luffy]

Massive output and achievements yes agreed. And you include him generally in a team short of class pace or class batting but a conventional atg team he's not making. Let's use Pakistan as an example:

Saeed
Hanif
Younis
Javed
Inzi
Rizwan+
Imran*
Wasim
Waqar
Saqlain
Shoaib

Are you leaving out any of the above for Sir Ian?

He'd likely make it into SL, and India, NZ. He adds absolutely nothing to the RSA, WI or Australian XIs. England, including him at 6 diminishes their batting. As one of of the 4 bowlers maybe there isn't much of a gap their in retrospect, between him and rhe other seamers. So maybe he makes it into England's team as one of the 4 front line bowlers idk. He's not coming close to a Worldl XI so nope not an atg for me.

I would take Ian and Dev over Shoaib as a bowler purely. Like Shoaib even shouldn't make the Pak XI as it is, Mushtaq should.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

I would take Ian and Dev over Shoaib as a bowler purely. Like Shoaib even shouldn't make the Pak XI as it is, Mushtaq should.

Ok that's fine he replaces Shoaib (I disagree) but like I said he'd make probably half the teams around but a world XI no. I know you naysayers will be like: " but Ambrose doesn't make a world XI either." To which I'd say he's on the very short list of fast bowlers that would and he wouldn't look out of place in one.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Ok that's fine he replaces Shoaib (I disagree) but like I said he'd make probably half the teams around but a world XI no. I know you naysayers will be like: " but Ambrose doesn't make a world XI either." To which I'd say he's on the very short list of fast bowlers that would and he wouldn't look out of place in one.

Like, I genuinely want to ask, what's the even argument for Shoaib over Botham or Kapil in a Pakistan AT XI?? Pakistan literally have a pretty mid batting unit by ATG standards with Imran batting at 7 and Rizwan at 6, and Shoaib arguably isn't even better than them purely as a bowler. At the very least, their bowling should be comparable, and as 5th bowler, Botham and Kapil providing an additional 30/35 runs in a mid batting order a no brainer.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Like, I genuinely want to ask, what's the even argument for Shoaib over Botham or Kapil in a Pakistan AT XI?? Pakistan literally have a pretty mid batting unit by ATG standards with Imran batting at 7 and Rizwan at 6, and Shoaib arguably isn't even better than them purely as a bowler. At the very least, their bowling should be comparable, and as 5th bowler, Botham and Kapil providing an additional 30/35 runs in a mid batting order a no brainer.

Or keep Pakistan conventional and go with 6 batsmen, a keeper and 4 front line bowlers:

Saeed
Hanif
Younis
Inzi
Javed
Yousuff
Rizwan+
Imran*
Wasim
Waqar
Saqlain

Batting and bowling are both good enough imo. If there's a situation or circumstance where Imran and co can't dismiss you, doubt Dev or Ian for one of the bowlers/batsmen would make any difference (in general).

 

[Northerner]

What is an all time great ? what is classed as an all time great ?, would Kapil be in an all time top 11 team. of course not, was he a great player ?, in my opinion he was. the first real pace bowler that India produced, taking a bucket load of wickets on the Indian pitches at that time was pretty impressive. his batting was a huge bonus, a genuine all rounder that i had the pleasure to watch.

 

[Johan]

Or keep Pakistan conventional and go with 6 batsmen, a keeper and 4 front line bowlers:

Saeed
Hanif
Younis
Inzi
Javed
Yousuff
Rizwan+
Imran*
Wasim
Waqar
Saqlain

Batting and bowling are both good enough imo. If there's a situation or circumstance where Imran and co can't dismiss you, doubt Dev or Ian for one of the bowlers/batsmen would make any difference (in general).

Yousuf is disgustingly out of position, batting is also extremely light for an AT XI

 

[capt_Luffy]

Or keep Pakistan conventional and go with 6 batsmen, a keeper and 4 front line bowlers:

Saeed
Hanif
Younis
Inzi
Javed
Yousuff
Rizwan+
Imran*
Wasim
Waqar
Saqlain

Batting and bowling are both good enough imo. If there's a situation or circumstance where Imran and co can't dismiss you, doubt Dev or Ian for one of the bowlers/batsmen would make any difference (in general).

Like you just had Shoaib out there. Botham and Kapil both provide you the perfect balance you need there. With 3 Pacers and one of them injury prone, you need a 5th option. And no one here can turn a hand even with any consistency. Ofcourse Botham and Kapil aren't as good bowlers, but they definitely are possible of very crucial breakthroughs, as well as even taking bunch of wickets on song. Moreover, reduce load on the 3 Pacers, letting them perform at their best. Frankly, I can't see a case for either of Yousuf or especially Shoaib over Botham or Kapil here.

 

[Johan]

I don't think Waqar is a given there either shrugs

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Like you just had Shoaib out there. Botham and Kapil both provide you the perfect balance you need there. With 3 Pacers and one of them injury prone, you need a 5th option. And no one here can turn a hand even with any consistency. Ofcourse Botham and Kapil aren't as good bowlers, but they definitely are possible of very crucial breakthroughs, as well as even taking bunch of wickets on song. Moreover, reduce load on the 3 Pacers, letting them perform at their best. Frankly, I can't see a case for either of Yousuf or especially Shoaib over Botham or Kapil here.

They really don't. Dev and Botham aren't doing anything bowling wise Waqar/Wasim/Imran can't do not even close. And speaking of Imran, Pakistan already has a great AR, two isnt close to be necessary. Ditto the batting.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

I don't think Waqar is a given there either shrugs

Huh? Waqar makes Pakistans XI. Leaving him out is absurd ie until Pakistan finds a better 3rd seamer. Dev/Botham aren't close to him bowling wise.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Like you just had Shoaib out there. Botham and Kapil both provide you the perfect balance you need there. With 3 Pacers and one of them injury prone, you need a 5th option. And no one here can turn a hand even with any consistency. Ofcourse Botham and Kapil aren't as good bowlers, but they definitely are possible of very crucial breakthroughs, as well as even taking bunch of wickets on song. Moreover, reduce load on the 3 Pacers, letting them perform at their best. Frankly, I can't see a case for either of Yousuf or especially Shoaib over Botham or Kapil here.

Idk about you but in these atg scenarios I'm not think about injury. I'm assuming the player is fit and in reasonable form. Otherwise, India shouldn't even think about including Bumrah is there's....