Is Ganguly good enough to play test cricket ?

[tooextracool]

ever seen Hussain play spin ?
He stuck out his pads and hoped for the best....through the 90s, Hick and Thorpe apart, there wernt many in the ENG team who could play spin.

yes obviously i have seen hussain play spin, and far more than you have i can tell. hussain used his feet against the spinners where everyone else had no idea how to play them.

utterly irrelevant. I am not comparing Ganguly to Richards...that is ridiculous.
I merely pointed out that taking selective periods of one's career instead of the whole distorts the image-just like how Richards would come second best to Richardson if 86-onwards or so stats are taken into accordance..

you were looking at a 1 year period in ganguly's career, as though thats supposed to prove something, especiall considering that it came at the start of his career, before he was found out.

As per his best lasting only a year- again that is false. Till 2000, he had only 1 bad year since his debut in 1996..
He was averaging 50 or close to 50 till 2000....Hussain on the other hand...heh nevermind.

and what did he do against australia, SA and pakistan? close to nothing.

Hussain has had a consistent career - he has never been superb but he has never been shyte...Ganguly the first half was superb...for the past few years he's been shyte.
however, overall, Ganguly is superior to Hussain in my view....

yes so superb that he was still failing against quality bowling attacks on seaming wickets.

As per playnig lone hands- IND batting order is a lot stronger than ENG's....has been for a long time....therefore you will see lot less collapses from IND than ENG...(both were pretty collapso before Dravid-Gangs stood up in the late 90s)
As per those hussain-innings, check Ganguly's debut innings....He and Dravid propped up IND...
Also check his 144 in OZ...

good joke, ganguly's debut inning on another flat wicket where everyone in the indian side got into double figures in a drawn game, clearly a lone hand.
and dont even start with his 144 in OZ which was against those fabulous bowlers of bracken, bichel etc.

Besides, a half dozen superb innings outta 150-200 odd doesnt make one better than another....its the overall what matters...and overall, Ganguly is a better batsman unquestionably than Butcher and handsomely than Hussain.

what do you mean overall? his overall lower averages against the better teams? or his overall better average on flat wickets? and its quite clear that hes got to play on more flat wickets than both hussain and butcher.

 

[C_C]

This assertion of flat wickets/good wickets is baffling...how exactly are you making that determination ? Seems that you are convinced that if a team scores big ---> its a flat wicket and if a team scores small ----> its a bowling wicket.... whereas a team can score big due to brilliant batsmanship or collapse due to injudiciousness....and likewise, a bowling side can restrict batsmen on docile wickets with brilliant bowling or give away runs by idiotic bowling on bowling-conductive sufraces.

As per Gangs vs Hussain,
Hussain does better against OZ, RSA and Pakistan(marginally-less than 1 pts difference).
Ganguly does better against SL, WI and NZ ( marginally-less than 1 pts difference)....Since they've each had 4-5 matches since the retirement of Courtney and Curtley and they performed almost similarly, Gangs was better against the WI greats than Hussain.....So in essence, in terms of quality attacks, Hussain has done better against OZ and RSA while Gangs has done better against WI ( PAK is almost identical)...whopee ding...ONE more team..YAY!...whereas OVERALL, Gangs leads Hussain by around 3.5-4 pts in the ave.

Afer same # of innings (131), Hussain has 600 odd runs less, has same # of centuries, 1 more not out and 2 less 50.

As per your comment about flat wickets and him getting to bat more on flat wickets than hussain/butcher, i gather you dont really know the difference.... spin friendly wickets are NOT flat wicket and playing spin superbly is NOT an inferior skill to playing PACE!

 

[Gangster]

nasser hussain has a problem against spin? thats the first ive heard off.

that's because when people discuss nasser hussain's batting, they never say "he's weak against spin" because then they'd have to waste additional time in saying "he's weak against medium-pacers"; "he's weak against swing bowling", etc., so they just save themselves the trouble and say "hussain's bad against all bowling". this would explain why you haven't heard the specific phrase "hussain has a problem against spin"

 

[tooextracool]

This assertion of flat wickets/good wickets is baffling...how exactly are you making that determination ? Seems that you are convinced that if a team scores big ---> its a flat wicket and if a team scores small ----> its a bowling wicket.... whereas a team can score big due to brilliant batsmanship or collapse due to injudiciousness....and likewise, a bowling side can restrict batsmen on docile wickets with brilliant bowling or give away runs by idiotic bowling on bowling-conductive sufraces.

no the assertation is made based on having watched the game, but unfortunately that isnt enough to use as proof. nonetheless its failry obvious that you dont get scores of over 500 in each inning on seamer friendly wickets.

Since they've each had 4-5 matches since the retirement of Courtney and Curtley and they performed almost similarly, Gangs was better against the WI greats than Hussain.....So in essence, in terms of quality attacks, Hussain has done better against OZ and RSA while Gangs has done better against WI ( PAK is almost identical)...whopee ding...ONE more team..YAY!...whereas OVERALL, Gangs leads Hussain by around 3.5-4 pts in the ave.

err what? ganguly played one series against ambrose and walsh, and averaged 19.50 in it, which is considerably worse than hussains average.

Afer same # of innings (131), Hussain has 600 odd runs less, has same # of centuries, 1 more not out and 2 less 50.

FTB......

As per your comment about flat wickets and him getting to bat more on flat wickets than hussain/butcher, i gather you dont really know the difference.... spin friendly wickets are NOT flat wicket and playing spin superbly is NOT an inferior skill to playing PACE!

nor did i say that they are always flat tracks, but only a fool would argue that pitches in india were anywhere near as bowler friendly as the ones in england in the 90s, and really there still are a lot of flat tracks in india.

 

[tooextracool]

that's because when people discuss nasser hussain's batting, they never say "he's weak against spin" because then they'd have to waste additional time in saying "he's weak against medium-pacers"; "he's weak against swing bowling", etc., so they just save themselves the trouble and say "hussain's bad against all bowling". this would explain why you haven't heard the specific phrase "hussain has a problem against spin"

certainly explains how he averages nearly 40 against the best side in the world and 43 against SA doesnt it?

 

[C_C]

no the assertation is made based on having watched the game, but unfortunately that isnt enough to use as proof. nonetheless its failry obvious that you dont get scores of over 500 in each inning on seamer friendly wickets.

But you get to score over 500 on a spin friendly wicket eh ?

FTB......

back atcha ( Nasser)

nor did i say that they are always flat tracks, but only a fool would argue that pitches in india were anywhere near as bowler friendly as the ones in england in the 90s, and really there still are a lot of flat tracks in india.

Actually only a fool would argue that pitches in IND are much flatter than the ones in ENG....it shows your lack of understanding of cricket.... ENG is a seamer-friendly country and IND is predominantly a spinner-friendly country.....infact to think that the subcontinent is less pacer-friendly is erroneous in itself.... it just is different condition than ENG/AUS/WI/RSA.....

Oh and hey- here is a bit of trivia for you... Almost every single pacer from the subcontinent.... Imran Khan, Kapil, Srinath,Waqar, Wasim Akram(even though he is very well balanced), Fazal Mahmood, Akhtar,Vaas,Aaqib Javed,Prasad,Ghavri, etc. average better AT HOME than away with the ball....Conversely, an overwhelming majority of non-subcontinental pacers crap all over the place when it comes to bowling in the subcontinent.... This implies that all this 'flat pitch/unconductive to pace pitch' etc are a whole pile of crap and that the subcontinent is simply a different condition to the 'bouncy/seaming' wickets of ENG/AUS/RSA... it is no more pace friendly or pace unfriendly on the whole as ENG or AUS are.....

You seem to think that Seam bowling is somehow more important or more cogent than spin bowling, therefore the lack of success of foreign pacers in IND is due to 'flat tracks'...

 

[honestbharani]

I am getting the feeling that TEC carries some colonial days notion that runs made in England are valuable but when they are made in India, they are not.

 

[Pratters]

My thoughts on the issue

S.C.Ganguly is averaging around 32 with the bat in recent 1-2 year tests vs opposition apart from Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. He has done a lot of good for Indian cricket but there are players like Y.Singh, M.Kaif who are losing out on a test career right now.

Ganguly can replace a Harbhajan or a Kumble or a Zaheer Khan for the team composition. Right now Ganguly is not assured of a regular first XI place. He should let some other people have the opportunity like he does for the openers, keepers, bowlers.

I have said some thing on the same lines six months ago. I would repeat. Please leave the Indian test team respectfully. Rather than kicked out like many previous Indian captains who forgot the humiliation of being sacked while basking in the glory while Indian captain and every one is being so sweet.

 

[marc71178]

Right now Ganguly is not assured of a regular first XI place. He should let some other people have the opportunity like he does for the openers, keepers, bowlers.

So captaincy doesn't assure one of a place any more then? :S

Rather than kicked out like many previous Indian captains who forgot the humiliation of being sacked while basking in the glory while Indian captain and every one is being so sweet.

Why is he in danger of being sacked?

 

[Pratters]

So captaincy doesn't assure one of a place any more then? :S

You have to perform with the bat too.

Why is he in danger of being sacked?

If he keeps getting out partly, sooner or later he will be sacked considering the competition for places.

 

[adharcric]

So far in the test series, Gambhir, Sehwag, Dravid, Tendulkar, Karthik, Balaji, Kumble and Harbhajan (sort of) have done enough to ensure that no doubts will be raised about their place in the squad. That leaves Ganguly, Laxman and Pathan. Pathan is probably just not fully fit at the moment and he is the #1 indian pacer. So unless Ganguly and Laxman score a big knock in the 3rd test, they might get knocked out by Kaif or Yuvraj for a spot soon.

 

[Arjun]

So far in the test series, Gambhir, Sehwag, Dravid, Tendulkar, Karthik, Balaji, Kumble and Harbhajan (sort of) have done enough to ensure that no doubts will be raised about their place in the squad. That leaves Ganguly, Laxman and Pathan. Pathan is probably just not fully fit at the moment and he is the #1 indian pacer. So unless Ganguly and Laxman score a big knock in the 3rd test, they might get knocked out by Kaif or Yuvraj for a spot soon.

Balaji's just had one good match and no more. Same with Karthik. Pathan may not be fully fit and #1 for many, but he has been well below par throughout the series, except with the bat in one innings. The coming ODI series should have major changes- the chances of the Indians winning the series with the current lineup are already very low, so they can afford to make more than a few changes. As for Ganguly, while doubts are expressed about his place in Tests, he should not be picked for ODI's- short balls apart, he can't field or run between wickets, which are key areas in ODI's. Gambhir is bettersuited for the limited-overs game.

 

[Pratters]

Another partly score and irresponsble display. In Calcutta, Ganguly played the bouncer very poorly in a crucial match position.

Were it not for a mature inning played by Dinesh Karthik, India would have been in a lot of trouble.

In Bangalore, the stump out was more shameful. With the team facing a follow on, the shot was unnecessary. Laxman made those runs to avoid the follow on under much more of a pressure situation than necessary courtesy of the irresponsible display by the captain.

 

[sledger]

Another partly score and irresponsble display. In Calcutta, Ganguly played the bouncer very poorly in a crucial match position.

Were it not for a mature inning played by Dinesh Karthik, India would have been in a lot of trouble.

In Bangalore, the stump out was more shameful. With the team facing a follow on, the shot was unnecessary. Laxman made those runs to avoid the follow on under much more of a pressure situation than necessary courtesy of the irresponsible display by the captain.

ganguly is a very proud man, i do not think there is anyone in that team who could do a better job than ganguly has done. his record speaks for itself in my opinion, i really rate ganguly not only as a player but i see him as a very good professional who should be a role model for his attitude to all young players whthere they are indian or not.

 

[kendall]

ganguly is a very proud man, i do not think there is anyone in that team who could do a better job than ganguly has done. his record speaks for itself in my opinion, i really rate ganguly not only as a player but i see him as a very good professional who should be a role model for his attitude to all young players whthere they are indian or not.

Agreed the idea of dropping ganguly is obsurd he is a good captain and is capable of playing some very good inings

 

[Pratters]

ganguly is a very proud man, i do not think there is anyone in that team who could do a better job than ganguly has done. his record speaks for itself in my opinion, i really rate ganguly not only as a player but i see him as a very good professional who should be a role model for his attitude to all young players whthere they are indian or not.

I never said Ganguly is not a proud man or a good captain.

But so was Hussain.

He renounced captaincy at the right time and retired when the time was right to give other players the chance.

Which is why I admire him so much. Hussain was a very good captain but England got Vaughan once Hussain quit.

Who is to say India cant have a capable captain in Dravid or Tendulkar (who was a failure as a captain not for lack of cricketing brains but cos of too much expectations from players and lack of support from management) or some one else.

 

[shoot_me]

what the hell was he doing charging down the wickt??? ganguly is now the ONLY batsman in the indian line-up that is a disgrace

i dont see why the worst player in the team should have the power to drop his teammates..

 

[sledger]

what the hell was he doing charging down the wickt??? ganguly is now the ONLY batsman in the indian line-up that is a disgrace

i dont see why the worst player in the team should have the power to drop his teammates..

it is ridiculous to call him a disgrace as he obviously is not, and neither is he the worst player in the side, he is a much better player than gambhir, in fact i dont know why india havnt put him back to the position of opener nefore they tried gamhbir. but to call him a disgraceis horribly ignorant and a very poor judgemnt of a good player.

 

[Pratters]

what the hell was he doing charging down the wickt??? ganguly is now the ONLY batsman in the indian line-up that is a disgrace

i dont see why the worst player in the team should have the power to drop his teammates..

As Zaheer Abbas said in a cricket show today, a captain will have respect of his team mates only when he is making runs himself.

Playing irresponsibly, immaturely as Ganguly has, only compounds the problem.

Add to that his near 30 average in tests vs teams other than Zimbabwe and Bangladesh in recent times, there is no reason I find for this devotion for Ganguly being retained atm.

 

[shoot_me]

it is ridiculous to call him a disgrace as he obviously is not, and neither is he the worst player in the side, he is a much better player than gambhir, in fact i dont know why india havnt put him back to the position of opener nefore they tried gamhbir. but to call him a disgraceis horribly ignorant and a very poor judgemnt of a good player.

in my opinion, he is a disgrace considering his current form (current form meaning past two years)