Is Dhoni greatest OdI cricketer off all-time

[Aaron510]

Greatest ODI cricketer..
greatest captain of all format!!

he has forced me to leave Gilly out of my all time ODI cricketer xi!!

 

[Victor Ian]

Some of those run outs by Dhoni were not that great. I think the last one... that is not out. Dhoni throws down the bails but batsman is in ground. He then takes off and Dhoni grabs ball and runs in and breaks stumps. But he does not remove a stump from the ground. Dfuk!

Another one, when he flicks it between his legs. Nice trick shot, but what in the **** is Dhoni doing standing in front of the wickets. That is not good. He is having to pull off trick shot flicks because he doesn't get himself in the right positions that make other keepers look regulation.

 

[Red]

Your comprehension is atrocious. As I said: **In a hypothetical scenario where all else is equal**

Nothing about Gilchrist v Dhoni is "all else being equal". You literally even brought up the different batting positions yourself.

fmd

It's not my comprehension mate.

I say "batting averages aren't a good way of saying Dhoni is better than Gilchrist because in their teams playing their roles they contributed pretty much the same amount of runs to the team. They're not actually that relevant in ODIs".

You say "Yeh but batting averages show who's a better batsman because it's better to make 50* and 50 than it is to make 50 and 50"

I say "yeh, that's my point, Dhoni has more opportunities for not outs because of where he bats, they contributed pretty much the same on average to their teams"

You say "you're comprehension is atrocious" (in spite of the fact you're making points that prove my point)

Ok.

 

[trundler]

I've already ended this thread. Please move along.

 

[TheJediBrah]

It's not my comprehension mate.

I say "batting averages aren't a good way of saying Dhoni is better than Gilchrist because in their teams playing their roles they contributed pretty much the same amount of runs to the team. They're not actually that relevant in ODIs".

You say "Yeh but batting averages show who's a better batsman because it's better to make 50* and 50 than it is to make 50 and 50"

I say "yeh, that's my point, Dhoni has more opportunities for not outs because of where he bats, they contributed pretty much the same on average to their teams"

You say "you're comprehension is atrocious" (in spite of the fact you're making points that prove my point)

Ok.

So now you think that "more opportunities for not outs" is an advantage? Just keeps getting worse

And yeah you clearly still haven't understood what I'm saying at all.

 

[honestbharani]

I take offence at being grouped with HB on this.

Says this and then goes on to make the exact same point I did.

 

[Burgey]

My key takeaway from this thread is that @Burgey is more a boomer than a racist since he got to triggered by Kapil being called a crap ODI player

You'll be surprised to know you're wrong on me being either. No one else will be surprised, of course.

 

[Red]

So now you think that "more opportunities for not outs" is an advantage? Just keeps getting worse

And yeah you clearly still haven't understood what I'm saying at all.

you might wanna check your comprehension there, champ.

 

[Daemon]

Great thread. Highlight was stephen and hb accusing each other of bias with a straight face.

 

[shifty_eyes]

Lets keep it simple. Ideally in limited overs game, the aim of any batsman is to play as many balls as possible while scoring runs as fast as they can. In this regard, Gilchrist faced 9922 balls while getting dismissed 268 times, averaging 37.02 BF/dis. In contrast, Dhoni faced 12303 balls while getting dismissed 213 times, averaging 57.76 BF/dis. If Gilchrist was indeed far better than Dhoni as a batsman then why did he got out so often facing far less deliveries? Now someone might argue that Gilchrist was an opening batsman so he had a specific role that was to accelerate the innings to give advantage to his team, and hence he was getting out quickly. But this only means that he was playing second fiddle to someone who was clearly better than him at staying at the crease. Besides Dhoni himself had an important role of finishing the innings for the team which is equally crucial if not more for the verdict of the match, specially while chasing. This invalidates the argument here by many that Gilchrist was more valuable to Australia as an opening batsman than Dhoni was to India as a lower order batsman.

For the record, Dhoni's average was not that 'bad' up the order. Here's the full list of averages based on batting positions

1-2 2 inn @49.00
3 16 inn @82.75
4 30 inn @56.58
5 83 inn @50.30
6 129 inn @47.31
7 34 inn @44.76
8 3 inn @17.00

 

[ankitj]

I do believe Dhoni would have had an even better career at 3 or 4 i.e. would have made more centuries and played more memorable knocks . Unlike other lower order batsmen, but like Bevan, he was not just a striker, he was an accumulator capable of shifting gears.

 

[honestbharani]

Highlight was stephen and hb accusing each other of bias with a straight face.

First the Sheep thread and now this... Finally figured out why @Daemon is going after me...

 

[OverratedSanity]

Wtf there's a reaction scorecard? What about all my likes over the last decade ffs, I had comfortably the highest number on the forum. (largely thanks to minnow bashing aka ***** likes but still)

 

[honestbharani]

What about all my likes over the last decade ffs,

 

[vcs]

Wtf there's a reaction scorecard? What about all my likes over the last decade ffs, I had comfortably the highest number on the forum. (largely thanks to minnow bashing aka ***** likes but still)

They were all reset post-Xenforo. Prove yourself again in this new era or STFU.

 

[trundler]

They were all reset post-Xenforo. Prove yourself again in this new era or STFU.

Oof, you know it's a dog eat dog world when vcs gets feisty

 

[Arachnodouche]

Dhoni vs Gilchrist is a non-starter as argument simply because there are other alternatives to Gilchrist as opener which is where he was at his most valuable. Dhoni's role as keeper + batting shepherd however has no realistic contender therefore he makes the grade every single time. This is not slighting Gilly; I believe his average belies the impact and intimidation his batting conveyed and he pulls his own weight as opener alone, but his overall skillset is surplus to requirement with Dhoni in the side.

 

[stephen]

Dhoni vs Gilchrist is a non-starter as argument simply because there are other alternatives to Gilchrist as opener which is where he was at his most valuable. Dhoni's role as keeper + batting shepherd however has no realistic contender therefore he makes the grade every single time. This is not slighting Gilly; I believe his average belies the impact and intimidation his batting conveyed and he pulls his own weight as opener alone, but his overall skillset is surplus to requirement with Dhoni in the side.

QdK is the only other opener+keeper who is close to the class of Gilly that I can think of. BMac was a pretty big step down but he's probably the next closest. Unless you're splitting Gilly's role into two (opener and keeper) and ignoring his keeping? Because ignoring Dhoni's keeping you get a batsman somewhere between Hussey and Bevan - excellent but not irreplaceable.

 

[trundler]

Bairstow if you cheat a bit

 

[stephen]

Bairstow if you cheat a bit

Yeah, though it depends on the player. It's a bit odd that they prefer his keeping in tests and Buttler's in ODIs. But I'd say Bairstow doesn't want to keep in ODIs while opening or he'd probably have the job. I don't rate Buttler's glove work overly highly.