Is Daniel Vettori underachieving?

[Flem274*]

hear hear!

Alright, I'll get the shotguns, you get the gallows.

P.S. what happened to TH's crusade against Vettori? It just stopped, is he sick?

 

[SJS]

Vettori's figures do no injustice to him. They are a more than fair reflection of his skill/quality as a bowler.

 

[Fiery]

Alright, I'll get the shotguns, you get the gallows.

P.S. what happened to TH's crusade against Vettori? It just stopped, is he sick?

He has his pet hate players, Vincent's another. People would probably say that Shane Watson is mine

 

[Flem274*]

He has his pet hate players, Vincent's another. People would probably say that Shane Watson is mine

Fair enough, Nathan Bracken's mine. Australian Women's Cricketer of the Year.

Seriously that hair cut.....

Can't argue with his performances though.

 

[Fiery]

Fair enough, Nathan Bracken's mine. Australian Women's Cricketer of the Year.

Seriously that hair cut.....

Can't argue with his performances though.

He gave Lisa Sthalekar a run for her money alright

 

[tooextracool]

Why shouldn't he if NZ prepare home pitches to suit him (and Bond... and Oram... and any of their other seamers)? He's not going to be any use in Australia, the subcontinent etc. but isn't that better than Chris Martin who's useless almost all the time regardless of destination?

Who do you see currently who is better? I'm not saying Franklin's a World-beater, I'm saying he's a better seamer than most others New Zealand have currently and still young enough to play for another 7 or 8 years.

You cant be picking bowlers because the conditions favour them at home(unless of course you have separate bowlers for home/away series which is hardly likely to happen). if NZ want to be successful they need to be picking bowlers that are capable of taking wickets in a variety of conditions and not just at home on green tops. I couldnt tell you who's better, although i think even tuffey is a better option than him if he is fully fit.

 

[tooextracool]

His bowling is irrelevent if he isn't going to bowl - which he didn't do at all during the India series. If the selectors think he has a role to play with the ball on a greentop then by all means they should pick him, but when he's not bowling at all then he clearly does not. And you're seriously dreaming if you think he'd make the side as a specialist batsman, regardless of what he's averaged since 2003.

I honestly dont see whats wrong with that. Hes even been scoring runs for his domestic side recently so its not OTT to be selecting him for every game because he offers something with both bat and ball.
Also, theres no way any captain can look at a greentop wicket and expect it to be conducive for the pace bowlers for all days of the test match. Many, many times, not only do pitch reporters get them wrong, but also some wickets seam for about a day and then flatten out after that. Not to mention that a lot depends on how overcast it will be during the entire test match, which will then come down to relying upon not just pitch reports but weather reports. At the end of the day, if a wicket takes turn by the 5th day of a test match and NZ didnt have vettori they will suffer major consequences, especially considering how rubbish all of their pace bowlers bar Bond actually are.

 

[tooextracool]

He compares Vettori to Murali later in the post though ...

Tbh Murali takes full advantage of his double jointed wrist to get more turn than anyone else as well as has an immaculate Doosra which now has become his stock method for taking wickets. Nothing wrong with it of course and it has made him the most successful bowler in the world, but i hardly think it involves as much skill as using loop, flight and drift as well as Vettori does.

 

[Flem274*]

I honestly dont see whats wrong with that. Hes even been scoring runs for his domestic side recently so its not OTT to be selecting him for every game because he offers something with both bat and ball.
Also, theres no way any captain can look at a greentop wicket and expect it to be conducive for the pace bowlers for all days of the test match. Many, many times, not only do pitch reporters get them wrong, but also some wickets seam for about a day and then flatten out after that. Not to mention that a lot depends on how overcast it will be during the entire test match, which will then come down to relying upon not just pitch reports but weather reports. At the end of the day, if a wicket takes turn by the 5th day of a test match and NZ didnt have vettori they will suffer major consequences, especially considering how rubbish all of their pace bowlers bar Bond actually are.

Good points.

Franklin is actualy reasonable in tests, Martin is only good for batting comedy value. I can't remember the last time Mills played a test match and we don't know how good Gillespie will be in tests. If our up and coming owlers stopped getting injured for 5 minutes we could try them out. I'd like to see Tim Southee, James McMillan and Iain O'Brien get a run personally.

 

[The Big Cheese]

Good points.

Franklin is actualy reasonable in tests, Martin is only good for batting comedy value. I can't remember the last time Mills played a test match and we don't know how good Gillespie will be in tests. If our up and coming owlers stopped getting injured for 5 minutes we could try them out. I'd like to see Tim Southee, James McMillan and Iain O'Brien get a run personally.

Sorry, the 2 test SA series may be a rumour, I can't actually find what first led me to believe that! Anyway...

Here's Mills' last test match! http://content-nz.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/238207.html
3 wkts for 79 runs isnt too bad, and almost reflects his test career thus far: average of 31. Also note performances of martin and franklin in this test. "Martin is only good for batting comedy value" eh!? 5-37 off 15 overs anyone? Admittedly he seems a bit tame on a flat batting track, but let's remember he has been NZs strike bowler in the past (when bond is injured).

Franklin IMO is learning how to bowl without swing and will be a very good player for NZ in tests for the future.

-Haven't seen much of Southee
-James McMillan is almost as injury-prone as bondy is.
-O'Brien was unlucky to test debut against Aus, but surely he could have done better than he did? To me, it seemed he bowled far too much short stuff and was punished by the aussies. Maybe time for a recall against lesser opposition though...

And as for vettori... 1 over for 11 runs in the test match... depressing really...

 

[Richard]

Also, theres no way any captain can look at a greentop wicket and expect it to be conducive for the pace bowlers for all days of the test match. Many, many times, not only do pitch reporters get them wrong, but also some wickets seam for about a day and then flatten out after that.

Can't remember the last time one didn't, TBH. Bloody hate wickets like that, and no-one ever seems capable of preparing a wicket that will seam throughout a match any more.

 

[Richard]

You cant be picking bowlers because the conditions favour them at home(unless of course you have separate bowlers for home/away series which is hardly likely to happen). if NZ want to be successful they need to be picking bowlers that are capable of taking wickets in a variety of conditions and not just at home on green tops. I couldnt tell you who's better, although i think even tuffey is a better option than him if he is fully fit.

You can't be picking the likes of Iain O'Brien ahead of Franklin, either.

The only reason to pick bowlers is because they're your best available, and at the current time I don't see many better seamers in NZ. You can't pick what's not there.

Your best chance is to make sure your home conditions favour what bowlers you do have. Which England, of late especially, have turned-out notoriously poor at.

 

[Flem274*]

Sorry, the 2 test SA series may be a rumour, I can't actually find what first led me to believe that! Anyway...

Here's Mills' last test match! http://content-nz.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/238207.html
3 wkts for 79 runs isnt too bad, and almost reflects his test career thus far: average of 31. Also note performances of martin and franklin in this test. "Martin is only good for batting comedy value" eh!? 5-37 off 15 overs anyone? Admittedly he seems a bit tame on a flat batting track, but let's remember he has been NZs strike bowler in the past (when bond is injured).

Franklin IMO is learning how to bowl without swing and will be a very good player for NZ in tests for the future.

-Haven't seen much of Southee
-James McMillan is almost as injury-prone as bondy is.
-O'Brien was unlucky to test debut against Aus, but surely he could have done better than he did? To me, it seemed he bowled far too much short stuff and was punished by the aussies. Maybe time for a recall against lesser opposition though...

And as for vettori... 1 over for 11 runs in the test match... depressing really...

Martin is infuriatingly inconsistent. His best figures usualy come inside NZ and for some wierd reason he's been a bit of a saffie killer. There is a case for his selection on current form I admit, but I believe Mark Gillespie should get a chance to open the bowling so he has more attacking lisence. Franklin is a good test bowler and really is an alrounder in tests so his value is greatly increased. I also believe we should use James McMillan while we can because of his injuries. How fast does he bowl and what is his age? I beleive the reason Bond has been uninjured is because he's slowed down a bit.

Also, do you reckon after Bond reitires he could teach our seamers how to bowl a bit better? He'd be good for accuracy and variation coaching.

 

[The Big Cheese]

Martin is infuriatingly inconsistent. His best figures usualy come inside NZ and for some wierd reason he's been a bit of a saffie killer. There is a case for his selection on current form I admit, but I believe Mark Gillespie should get a chance to open the bowling so he has more attacking lisence.

I would rather play Millsy than Gillespie or Martin, if injuries allow. Surprisingly, Gillespie does have good first class figures, so maybe he could be an option.
http://content-nz.cricinfo.com/ci/content/player/37111.html

Franklin is a good test bowler and really is an alrounder in tests so his value is greatly increased. I also believe we should use James McMillan while we can because of his injuries. How fast does he bowl and what is his age?

Agreed about Franklin. Agreed about Mcmillan . When i saw him bowl in some state shield match, he was getting it up there around 148, averaging 145 probably. He was getting good away swing to the right handers, and with a consistent line and length as well, beating the bat ALOT. He is nearly 29 years of age. Here is a page of him courtesy of cricinfo: http://content-nz.cricinfo.com/ci/content/player/37762.html And he is the cousin of one CD McMillan! Funny how much cricketers are related in New Zealand, ie. Astle being the brother in law of McMillan.

Also, do you reckon after Bond reitires he could teach our seamers how to bowl a bit better? He'd be good for accuracy and variation coaching.

The same was pleaded of Richard Hadlee in regards to bowling and Martin Crowe, in batting. As far as I know, neither have done the blackcaps any help in this way.
One remains hopeful, but also doubtful...

 

[Flem274*]

Loving McMillans figures. We need this bloke now TBH. In both forms of the game.

 

[Perm]

Loving McMillans figures. We need this bloke now TBH. In both forms of the game.

Just another Bond when it comes to injuries.

 

[Flem274*]

Just another Bond when it comes to injuries.

Then use him while we can. Or he could slow down a bit and develop accuracy and variation, like Bond did. Slowing down did wonders for Bond's injury record. He actualy survived a whole season!

 

[Matt79]

OT, but given Malinga has stolen his crown as ***iest Cricketer, Dan is obviously underperforming.

 

[Flem274*]

OT, but given Malinga has stolen his crown as ***iest Cricketer, Dan is obviously underperforming.

He's got a girlfriend or wife now I beleive, so that means he's banned from pleasing the ladies.

 

[Smudge]

Then use him while we can. Or he could slow down a bit and develop accuracy and variation, like Bond did. Slowing down did wonders for Bond's injury record. He actualy survived a whole season!

I know James (not that well), but he's worse than Bond when it comes to injuries, which is a real shame - he'll go down at least two to three times a season for a period of time with injuries - sometimes in the back but mainly in the legs.